Could it be that Middlesex Dems are finally starting to clean house? In the wake of $1 million settlement by the county in a sexual harrassment lawsuit, Sheriff Joe Spicuzzo announced that he won't run for his seat after being sheriff for nearly 30 years. Politicker NJ points out that if former sheriff's officer and current Freeholder Millie Scott were to gain the seat, she would be the first African American woman sheriff in NJ.
I wonder how the women in the lawsuit, who are still in the sheriff's office, would like having Millie Scott as their boss? She had to come up through the ranks in a department with an entrenched sexist culture. It couldn't have been easy. She's a woman of few words, so I don't expect to hear from her on how it was for her, though I admit, I'm curious.
As I said in my diary about this the other day, it seems the 'Boys will be boys' attitude isn't flying any more in Middlesex. This is saving Wisniewski a big headache. And if he's still looking for advice, I'd say keep on cleaning house.
Promoted by Rosi. I'm sending the url of this diary to Chairman Wisniewski's office to see if he would like to comment, as he has in the diary he posted Monday asking for advice.
The Star Ledger reported that Middlesex County is settling for $1 million in a lawsuit filed by 5 female sheriff's officers. County Sheriff and Democratic County Chair Spicuzzo said last month that he's still running for his 10th term as sheriff.
He was re-elected Dem County Chair last June.
I guess what we're seeing is that the 'boys will be boys' attitude no longer flies.
In the suit, the five officers alleged they were the targets of "pervasive and regular harassment" from the day they were hired. Accusations were made against Sheriff Joseph Spicuzzo and his then Undersheriff Angelo Falcone among other ranking officers. The women alleged they were subjected to sexual propositions, innuendo, exposure to sexually explicit material and sexually derogatory language...
How do you think the settlement will show in the county budget? I'm definitely going to have stop by and get a copy of the budget, which is being voted on tomorrow, to see how our new Freeholder Director Rafano plans to close the budget gaps. It's going to be a tight one, also including the loss of $5 million from doing the right thing and canceling the contract to house immigrant detainees in the jail.
And there's another lawsuit still out there:
A separate lawsuit, filed by two former women sheriff's officers claiming harassment -- Joan Ivana and Angel Jazikoff -- is still pending in federal court... In their suit filed by Garrigan, the women claim a hostile work environment affected their mental and physical health. Garrigan contends Ivana was fired in retaliation for the suit. Their suit claims, among other allegations, that Jazikoff complained Officer Robert Landis exposed himself to her in front of other male officers on Aug. 31, 2001... Ivana alleges she was "subjected to constant, continuous and pervasive comments of an offensive and sexual nature."
Wisniewski, are you still wanting advice? As I just said in the comments of your 'I want advice' diary, we need more diversity, and we need to clean house in Middlesex county or the Democrats will continue lose seats around the county. Even though the countywide positions are still all in Democratic party hands, we've lost 25 seats over the last 3 years and couldn't even hold the county for Corzine. Reform is not a luxury, it is an imperative.
Dual officeholder Blanquita Valenti, New Brunswick Councilwoman and Middlesex County Freeholder responded at yesterday's NB council meeting, when asked why campaign lit wasn't in Spanish and English (after some sotto voce comments from others - council, counsel, administrators or whoever else on the panel - about "them' not being citizens):
If they don't speak English, they can't become citizens.
Um, some people gain citizenship, like I did, by being born here. Truly astounding from the woman who purports to represent the hispanic community in New Brunswick and the county, and who also represents a county with monolingual Korean, Chinese, Hindi, (probably Urdu and Gujarati for all I know) speakers who are citizens, in substantial numbers.
Kudos to the Rutgers student who responded at the meeting, though she missed his point on the education system, resting on whatever laurels she has from back in the day for setting up bilingual education.
Makes me worry about the upcoming nat'l immigration debate.
Starting with Middlesex County cutting the contract with ICE that allowed the county, since Dec 2001, to house immigrant detainees in the county jail, reported in the Home News, to 2 Massachusetts jurisdictions ending their 287(g) programs that deputize local law enforcement as immigration agents, Boston Globe, on the same day that Middlesex acted.
"We're done. I told them to come get the computers." Framingham Police Chief Steve Carl
Ya gotta love the frankness of police chiefs when they don't want to give in to ICE demands...
"It doesn't benefit the police department to engage in deportation and immigration enforcement,"
Topped off by the new rules for Maricopa County making Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Phoenix, "furious," HuffPo. Though this only covers the cops in the street, so they are still detaining people who come into the county jail.
Gives one hope for change. In the meantime, I'd love for them to make it easier for those of us in our Middlesex visitors program to find the guys we were visiting who are now dispersed to Monmouth, Hudson and Essex jails. And I'm hearing that in Essex, you can wait for 3 hours and not even get the 15 minute visit!
Senator Buono should be Jon Corzine's pick for Lieutenant Governor, she the progressive fiscally responsible choice for Lieutenant Governor. As chair of the Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee she has stood up to tough special interests for the good of the people of NJ.
The court sided this morning with the 20 New Brunswick challengers for committee seats against the municipal clerk and attorney/campaign manager that wanted to disqualify them. There is no 1 year residency requirement for party committee seats, so the slate of 50 challengers will stand. The Star Ledger slips up and calls them "county community" seats. That's what they may turn out to be. Now hopefully with the courtroom fight over, the Democrats4Change just have to go out and win their seats. Unfortunately, the city attorney isn't saying it's over:
T.K. Shamy, campaign manager for the incumbents who sought to have 20 of the 50 candidates from Democrats for Change disqualified, said he didn't know if he would file an appeal of Hurley's decision.
If you thought they wouldn't be challenged, Home News:
The race for 56 Middlesex County Democratic Committee seats landed in court Wednesday after 20 candidates running on an opposition slate were disqualified based on residency questions.
It's a question of whether there is a 1 yr. residency requirement for committee seats:
The plaintiffs, Democrats for Change, were represented pro bono by attorney Patricia Bombelyn. Bombelyn argued that the state statute which the city used to disqualify the 20 candidates does not apply to county committee candidates.
The AG's office agrees:
But Deputy Attorney General Thu Lam, who participated in the hearing via telephone and was representing the state attorney general and secretary of state, said she disagreed with Hamilton and Aronowitz and agreed with Bombelyn that the one-year requirement only applied to public office candidates.
All kinds of other stuff about timelines and notification in the Home News article, and presumably there will be more info at: Democrats4change.com.
But with a freeholder challenge: Jusleine Daniel for Freeholder and Jun Choi running off line in Edison, there are going to be some interesting primaries and challenges here in Middlesex
Repeating a tactic I wrote about in Jan, the new Middlesex freeholder director Dalina shut down public commentary on the budget. I got there just after the meeting ended, since it was another short one. Dalina opened for public comment, moved to close, it was seconded and that was it. Some folks who don't want billboards on every green space in the county, including electronic billboards, were none too pleased, since they wanted to be heard.
The one item I know well, the amount the county is getting from ICE, has gone down from $6.17 million last year (actually 2007) to $5.2 million (in 2008 and projected for this year). The number of immigrant detainees averaged closer to 150, rather than 200. I hope that means the ICE raids are slowing down.
From the Home News' coverage of Mdlsx Dem County Chair Joe Spicuzzo's press conference yesterday, referring to S. Amboy Mayor John O'Leary:
The county party chairman said the Democratic nominating convention, which had been scheduled for March 26, now has been canceled.
The nomination of candidates for the party's endorsement for the June primary election will be set on March 18, during a 7 p.m. meeting at The Pines Manor in Edison. The party's bylaws do not require a convention if the number of candidates for a post does not exceed the number of seats available. Because O'Leary and incumbent Assemblyman John Wisniewski are the only Democratic candidates for the two Assembly seats, a convention is not necessary.
Well, that's convenient. I guess Woodbridge, Perth Amboy, Sayreville and Carteret don't have anyone interested. Supposing you wouldn't want both reps in the assy from the same town, you can knock out Sayreville.
The district is 1/4 latino, according to politckernj.com, and already represented by two white guys: Sen. Vitale and Assyman Wisniewski.
From what I hear, South Amboy is a blue collar Democratic town of about 8,000. It's is one of several municipalities in Middlesex that have no women on council. Photos and bios, here:
Council President Fred Henry - Term: 2009
Council Vice-President Joseph Connors - Term: 2009
Councilman Russell Stillwagon - Term: 2012
Councilman John O'Connell - Term: 2012
Councilman Mark Noble - Term: 2012
It's looking like Middlesex Co. Dems are going to buck the trend of replacing indicted legislators with women, which got us to a record 28% women in the legislature. So much for minority representation in the 19th, unless Pradip "Peter" Kothari, the GOP candidate from Woodbridge, were to pull off an upset.
Oh, and Vas will let Spicuzzo know if he's willing to step down as Perth Amboy Dem municipal chair sometime next week.
Since Freeholder Director Crabiel's death last November, Deputy Director Dalina has become the new Director. At last night's freeholder board meeting, there was a group of people including clergy, wanting to speak about the county's housing immigrant detainees in the jail and the ICE raids on homes that have occurred, particularly in the Indonesian community in Woodbridge. The new Freeholder Director did not follow the practice established by Crabiel, which was to open the floor for comments only on resolutions on the agenda, before opening to any comments. Immediately after Dalina's first call for public comment, he moved to closed the meeting, and it was over. It must be one of the shortest Mdlsx Co. freeholder meetings in history, lasting around 35 minutes! People who were prepared to make comments were very frustrated. And it looks to me like the director is right on the edge of (if not across the line) violating the Open Public Meetings Act.
Other counties have had their problems with taking overflow detainees from INS/ICE and housing them in their county jails. The govt contract was cut in Passaic in 2006, when it was publicized that they were using dogs on detainees. Hudson and Passaic county jails were on the top 5 worst places in the country for immigrant detainees in 2006, according the NJ Civil Rights Defense Committee a citizens' watchdog group, with several Central Jersey members, and Essex was under a federal consent order to improve medical care.
The background on the Middlesex case is this:
On March 2th, a Cuban immigrant detainee, Arturo Alvarez, died from a heart attack he suffered while being held in Middlesex County jail. A petition signed by over 90 detainees contends that Mr. Alvarez asked for medical help on February 29th and was given Tylenol and some medications that he had, but no doctor was called to see him. Detainees at this facility are so concerned about the neglect towards severe medical complaints that over 90 of them signed a petition to Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff and United States Attorney General Mukasey.
I went with concerned citizens and the NJCRDC to the Mdlsx Freeholders meeting on Thursday to see what their reaction would be and if there will be an independent investigation and whether they will consider following the state corrections move last month to switch to a non-profit healthcare provider. The main points are covered in today's Home News article:
MIDDLESEX COUNTY - In the wake of the recent death of an immigrant detainee held at the Middlesex County jail, a citizen activist group has called on the county freeholders to open an investigation into what it perceives as problems within the facility.
...New Jersey Civil Rights Defense Committee, is also calling on the freeholders to cancel their contract with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) which pays the county $100 a day per detainee. The county anticipates revenues of $6.17 million in 2008 for providing ICE with use of the county jail for immigrant detainees who numbered 184 out of the total inmate population of 1,290 as of Friday.
On March 2, a man detained under the name of Arturo Alvarez died at St. Peter's University Hospital in New Brunswick after suffering a heart attack at the jail on Feb. 29...
The 72-year-old Alverez arrived from Cuba in 1980, the year of the Mariel Boat lift when 125,000 Cubans fled to the United States...
The county jail contracts its health service out to Marlton-based CFG Health Systems. [Freeholder] Rafano said the county jail bids out for health services and has used CFG "for several years."
The detainees' petition also claims that another man, Cemar Koc, complained of pain to a first-shift duty officer at the county jail but did not receive help, and after complaining to a second--shift officer, lost consciousness.
The freeholder in charge of corrections has promised a meeting. More after our upcoming meetings.
I was pleased to see today's ruling regarding the discrepencies in last Feb's NJ primary vote, from the Star Ledger:
Superior Court Judge Linda Feinberg ordered election officials in Bergen, Gloucester, Mercer, Middlesex, Ocean and Union coun ties to submit the machines by Tuesday after activists, seeking to have the electronic voting machines discarded, succeeded in convincing her that examining the counties' machines is critical to their case.
Nineteen counties are equipped with Sequoia... Last month, the Constitutional Officers Association of New Jersey, which includes all county clerks, urged the state Attorney General's Office to call in independent experts to examine the machines. No action was taken, however.
Obviously, Sequioa is suing in response, from the Trenton Times (my bolding):
Sequoia Voting Systems filed legal motions this week to block subpoenas ordering counties to turn over a few of their machines to activists who want to investigate the discrepancies.
As many as 30 of Mercer County's 600 machines were affected...
A hearing is scheduled for April 25 before Superior Court Judge Linda Feinberg in Trenton, Sypek said.
Ok, so voters, citizen groups and citizens who want their vote counted are termed 'activists'? Is Rush Holt an activist? I assume he wants independent review of the discrepencies. What scientist wouldn't? I hope he is offering the hope of federal financing for NJ to actually have a paper trail by Nov, which I saw alluded to here in the last month or so, now that the legisislature punted.
According to Penny Venetis:
The activists are represented by Penny Venetis, a professor at the Rutgers University law clinic.
"Sequoia is not a party in the case and has no right to interject itself now."
So what do we call Sequoia lawyers, lobbyists, 'communications', 'public relations' folks who are making sure that the integrity of their systems are not questioned? And what are they called in the MSM?
Sequoia officials Michelle Shafer, a spokeswoman for Sequoia in California
That's only the Trenton Times and Ledger, are other papers doing the same? Covering the issue at all?
The Middlesex County Convention already met at the beginning of March and endorsed Lautenberg. From the MCDO website:
Along with the county candidates, U. S. Senator Frank Lautenberg, Congressmen Frank Pallone, Rush Holt and Albio Sires and Congressional candidate Linda Stender were emphatically endorsed by county committee members.
At their convention last month, Middlesex Democrats endorsed Lautenberg, Rep. Frank Pallone (D-6th Dist.) and Freeholder Director David Crabiel, among others. All were expected to run together as a slate. But that was before Andrews entered the race and picked up the backing of Sens. Bob Smith, Barbara Buono and Joseph Vitale and Assemblyman John Wisniewski, all Middlesex Democrats.
"It's all in flux right now," Vitale said last evening. "Leadership hasn't yet decided how the county line will be constructed."
Pallone said he and every Democratic congressman other than Andrews have pledged to run on a slate with Lautenberg -- and he expects to be bracketed with Crabiel and the senator. "If that were to change, myself and all of the congressmen would run with him (Lautenberg) and create our own freeholder line" to run against the endorsed slate, Pallone said last night.
Crabiel, who could find himself in that crossfire, said, "The lawyers are all looking into the legal aspects of it."
They could have at least avoided the legal issues, by delaying the convention, or holding a separate one for the higher offices.
I'm surprised to see that all 4 Dem Senators line up for Andrews (Buono, Smith, Vitale, and Scutari who is mostly in Union), along with Assymn Wisniewski.
With Greenstein, DeAngelo, Vas and Egan supporting Lautenberg, that leaves among the state legislators:
Barnes III, Diegnan, and Chivukula (and Stender & Green who represent more of Union), still on the fence.
Well, it looks like the easy race expected for 17th District Democratic Assemblymen Chivukula and Egan just got easier. GOP opponent Skip House just announced in the Home News Tribune Letters section that he isn't going to campaign anymore. Why? Because of an unscientific poll on the web site of a local daily newspaper.
Assembly candidate disappointed in voters
Benjamin Franklin's comment questioning if the people would be able to keep a republic was on my mind when I became a Republican candidate for the Assembly in the 17th District.
The Community Voices "Speak Up!" question on initiative and referendum raised my hopes that there would be an outpouring of interest in voters making their own laws. There hasn't been, and it is the issue I'm running on.
Subsequently, I'll not campaign actively anymore. Most people seem to prefer the status quo of high taxes, offset by politicians' irrational promises of greater benefits at no cost. Good luck with that pipe dream!
Matthew "Skip" House
Waaaaaahhhhhhhhh. Some random people who went to a web page and clicked a button don't support my issues, so instead of working to convince them I'm going to put my tail between my legs and go home.
The saddest thing is the only way he could get his race resignation in the paper was in the Letters section. Seriously, no one cared.
The Jersey GOP is collapsing right in front of our eyes.
After a second article and second editorial on March 30th from the Home News:
More power to women seeking office in N.J.
The impending retirement of 12 state senators - all but one of them male - presents a long-overdue opportunity for New Jersey's political establishment and the voters to put more women in the Statehouse come this fall. May the parties and the electorate answer that call. New Jersey's rough treatment of female political candidates in recent decades has become something of a national embarrassment...
Home News Tribune editor
They accepted my 2nd letter and didn't even title it so badly this time. In the print edition, it appeared below a picture of Seema Singh and one of Ellen Karcher, and next to another supportive letter for Karcher, which taken to together seemed to form a comment in and of itself - that they are continuing to keep the issue front and center on the opinion page.
Thanks to the Home News Tribune for a second editorial on the abysmal numbers of women in politics in New Jersey. I agree that it's an embarrassment and we are a century behind. In my home state of California, an impressive 36 percent of 53 Congress members are women. If New Jersey had the same proportion, we would have five women in Congress, instead of none. And while New Jersey has never sent a woman to the Senate, both of California's senators are women.
I'm happy to see Seema Singh endorsed to run for state Senate in the 14th District, although she is running in a tough district while open seats in safe districts in Middlesex County are still filled by men, e.g. Assemblyman Peter J. Barnes III in the 18th District. I agree with state Sen. Ellen Karcher, D-Mercer, Monmouth, that New Jersey is progressive and diverse enough to elect more women. She says, "We are woefully behind . . . I don't know what accounts for that." I would blame the structure of the parties and their unwillingness to open up the process.
I am less optimistic [than you] about the 12 state Senate openings. Besides running women this year, like Seema Singh, I advocate reforming the political process. If Gov. Jon S. Corzine can get a ban on dual office-holding through the Legislature, we could see more future opportunities for women and minorities.
Aside from personally wishing the governor a speedy recovery, I'm less optimistic about the prospects for a dual office holding ban if Corzine doesn't resume his duties in the next couple of months.
I hope Codey is going to work with Corzine's agenda and not get bogged down on these types of reforms, which have been notoriously tough for the the legislature to pass without delays and watering down the bills.
Surprise, surprise. MCDO got their slate together yesterday. From the Home News:
...all Democratic incumbents were endorsed by voice votes by county committee members who number more than 1,000 from the county's 25 municipalities...
Spicuzzo, chairman of the Democratic Organization, considers the field of candidates to be a strong one. "I think it is a strong field of candidates, but I also feel that they are capable people in providing good government," said Spicuzzo.
Spicuzzo said he is feeling much better than the last election during which he was recovering from a stroke he suffered during a gastric surgery...
And how about the only open assembly seat?
The endorsement of Barnes III for the primary also settled the question of who would fill the term of his father and Assemblyman Peter J. Barnes Jr., who appears headed for confirmation by the state Senate later this week for chairman of the State Parole Board. Barnes Jr. would be required to leave the Assembly if he is confirmed and takes the job.
Legacies rule too. I like the way the reporter goes along with idea that there is no such thing as a competitive primary. The filing deadline is Apr 10th, but of course, no serious challenge is expected.
Oh, but wait, in another district, Assyman Vas has a challenger - you might remember that Vas was the challenger for the 13th CD against Menendez replacement, Albio Sires.
Barry Adler of Woodbridge will challenge for an Assembly endorsement.
Can challenging in a CD actually make a Mdlsx incumbent vulnerable?
To my knowledge, Vas was the last challenger to take down an incumbent, Arlene Friscia, but my memory is short and I only know very recent history.
I know nothing of Adler, and the only thing I know about Woodbridge is that there are 3 out of 9 women on the council, including the council president, but after Sen. Vitale graciously agreed to the former mayor's wish to serve as interim mayor, he also agreed to step aside to let former McGreevey treasurer and the current mayor, McCormac, run for the seat last November.
Event: Barack Obama's Official Announcement
Date: Saturday February 10th
Time: 10:00AM EST
Locations: Listed Below
The NJ Draft Obama.org chapter is calling on all progressive supporters to rally behind Senator Barack Obama as he makes his official announcement this coming Saturday morning. And where better to watch this historical event than a Jersey Diner?that's right.
The Diner represents the heart of NJ culture and therefore serves as the best venue for open discussion and a sense of community. These informal settings will allow us to discuss the Barack Obama candidacy, but more importantly organize for the FUTURE. There will be several events occurring simultaneously across the state in what has been coined, "Dinerside Chats".
We hope to see you at one of them this Saturday. And again, thank you for offering your time and showing your support.
Dinerside Chat Locations:
Bergen
State Line Diner
375 State RT 17
Mahwah, NJ 07430
(201) 529-3353
What do people think of this suggestion from the husband of Mdlsx county clerk (if I'm not mistaken)? The Home News letters have been quite interesting lately. Their editorial is excerpted here (after SL article).
I read with interest the Home News Tribune's Nov. 16 editorial concerning the lack of women in the State legislature.
When I ran for state Senate in 2003, I said that if elected I would introduce legislation setting up a mandatory seat in every legislative district for a woman.
Currently, when municipal committee people are elected, there is one mandatory seat for a man and one mandatory seat for a woman. I see no reason why we can't use the same system for the state Legislature. Every district has two seats. One should be mandated for a man, the other for a woman. The Senate seat would be available to either gender.
I would consider this a drastic step but the progress in New Jersey has been at a snail's pace for parity between the sexes when it comes to higher office.
There are many good women who would be excellent legislators, but without the benefit of something like my suggestions, I do not think that we will be significant changes in the near future.
I was so busy with the election that I didn't notice that we got coverage for our meeting with elected women in Mdlsx, called by the vice chair after we put together a report and plan titled Thirty in Three that I posted a diary about back in August. After the meeting in Sept, the county party issued a press release, but we thought it wouldn't be picked up, but there it was on Nov 5!
Women Democrats are seizing the day
County's upheaval presents opportunity
Star-Ledger, The ( Newark , NJ ), November 5, 2006
Author: DIANE C. WALSH; STAR-LEDGER STAFF
As the Middlesex County 's Democratic organization continues to deal with the fallout from power broker John Lynch's guilty plea on federal corruption charges, women in the local party see the change in leadership as an opportunity.
A group of more than a dozen of the highest-ranking elected women in the county recently gathered at party headquarters in Metuchen for the inaugural meeting of the Middlesex County Democratic Elected Women's Caucus.
"There is a sense of change, and they want more involvement," said Helen Gottlieb, the vice chairwoman of the county organization, who called the meeting. She said the caucus was created with the support of county Chairman Joseph Spicuzzo to encourage women to seek office by providing them mentors and support.
"There is a bit of a vacuum obviously with John (Lynch) not in the picture right now," said Debbie Walsh, director of the Center for American Women and Politics at the Eagleton Institute at Rutgers University . "It opens up room for some new possibility."
Lynch, who helped build the county organization into one of the most powerful in the state, pleaded guilty to fraud in federal court. He admitted to secretly accepting thousands of dollars from a contractor while lobbying to help him develop state parkland. He faces at least 33 months in prison when he is sentenced in December.
Walsh said it's too soon to determine how the party will be shaped in Lynch's absence, but she said women should seize the opportunity.
"We have to watch and see the potential," Walsh said.
Despite a record number of women serving in the state Legislature, Walsh said there is only slight progress in electing women as mayors and freeholders.
Every year, the center publishes a report card on women in politics, and this year Middlesex ranked among the 18 counties labeled "unsatisfactory" because it had too few women serving as mayors.
Among the county's 21 towns, three women are mayors, Gloria Bradford, a Republican in Milltown; Meryl Frank, a Democrat in Highland Park ; and Nancy Martin, an independent in Helmetta.
Two women serve on the seven-member freeholder board, and Elaine Flynn is the county clerk...
Gottlieb said women hold about 20 percent of all the elected offices in the county, including mayoral, council and county government posts. She said she hopes to increase the representation to at least 30 percent.
Assemblywoman Linda Greenstein (D-Middlesex), who also participated in the first meeting of the caucus, said if more women are elected to office "it could make a difference about how politics is done in New Jersey."
We've got the goal in place, 30% is called 'a critical mass' in some of the reports I've read, now we have to get organized about how to make it happen.
The DEP is digging up leaking oil tanks behind low income housing in Perth Amboy. A resident who has lived there since 1995 wonders whether her tomatoes were safe to eat. From the Home News:
"Who gave them the right to build homes with this kind of contamination in the ground?" she asked. "Kids live here and played out there. Who knows what kids have put in their mouth."
I like the description of the initial report:
the DEP responded after someone reported seeing a hazardous material coming out of the ground by the parking lot.
I'm pretty sure, as an average citizen, I wouldn't call it in using the phrase 'a hazardous material.'
