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Time to pick a VP

by: Jeff Gardner

Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:10:02 PM EDT



I promised I'd follow up on an outlandish proposal I made yesterday (and have been making for a while now), so here goes nothin':

Barack Obama should choose Hillary Clinton as his Vice Presidential nominee.

Now, I realize Clinton is still vying for the nomination, and I have no problem with that - our primary has turned what has been an every-four-year snoozefest into a vibrant democratic 50-state-strategy come to life. That alone so far outweighs any imagined advantage to the republicans that in the aggregate, I don't buy the nonsense that it is helping John McCain a bit. So, I say, have at it.

But, if she can look ahead to the next primary, we can certainly look ahead too. And looking ahead at this point means thinking about our Democratic ticket. And, nothing would secure a win in November like keeping the dream team together.

My reasons are a click away...

Jeff Gardner :: Time to pick a VP
Simply put, I think Hillary completes an Obama ticket, and that a combined Obama-Clinton ticket will absolutely obliterate McCain-Whoever, with coattails to spare.

I don't subscribe to the theory that VP candidates "win states" for Presidential candidates. So, I don't think we should go shopping for a candidate in Wisconsin or Colorado or wherever. In 2008's wired world, geographic considerations are no longer what they once might have been, and recent outcomes back that up.

Anyway, people don't vote for Vice Presidents - they vote for Presidents. So, a good VP choice is one that completes the presidential candidate's resume, and creates a ticket that can compete everywhere.

Barack Obama's strengths are his strengths - and they are many and enormous and great, and have propelled him to where he is now. His biggest weakness as a candidate thus far appears to be the "trust factor" - specifically, concern about his experience - which has played out as underperformance among seniors, women, latinos, and jewish voters - all constituencies with the potential to swing in John McCain's direction.

On that score, an Obama-Clinton ticket leaves little room for error. Democrats have enjoyed over a year of nonstop frontpage reinforcement of the message that this election is about the inspirational Obama and the experienced Clinton. Her attempt to paint him as unelectable has fallen as flat as his attempt to paint her as inexperienced. He's obviously electable, and she's obviously experienced. Primary voters nationally could hardly be more evenly split between them - and they've proved that in the voting booth.

Indeed, uniting that very real divide in the party is the biggest challenge right now, and the easiest to fix. The new guard, with Obama as its standard-bearer is poised to take over from the old guard. That kind of change is inevitable. Whether the new guard has the good sense to bring the old guard along with them is what separates a winner from a loser.

Looking to the past can be instructive. Kennedy's pick of Johnson was a brilliant way to tamp down concerns about his relative inexperience. Reagan's pick of Bush was even more brilliant in bringing together two strongly divided wings of a party following an acrimonious primary. Both are examples of a charismatic presidential nominee choosing an experienced wonky VP. Hate them all you like, but W's choice of Cheney did much the same thing.

So, here we are again. The Obama v. Clinton presidential primary storyline has helped register gobs of new voters, energized countless others, and relegated John McCain specifically, and the republican party generally, to the back pages for months now.

We would be fools to break up the band.

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Time to pick a VP | 27 comments
It's ok to hate on me (3.33 / 3)
Silence can be confused for agreement

It's a worthy point. (4.00 / 1)
If she doesn't accept (which I see as the likely option), Obama should pick Jim Webb. I used to think Tom Daschle would be the best choice, but I think he will end up WH Chief of Staff.

Selecting Webb would also make the new, expansive G.I. Bill one of the key planks of the Democratic platform, which is very important policy with the added bonus of being good politics.


[ Parent ]
You Rate a "4" Even When Wrong n/t (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
Allow me to cast the first stone (4.00 / 2)
because, you know...

Pretty much, the only people that think Clinton is trustworthy are the people voting for her.  I don't see the benefit of driving down your desirables.  I really don't see McCain picking up anyone who is pro-choice or anti-war.

I think Johnson was picked as a means of ensuring Texas went along with the ticket and, at any rate, was before primaries held much of a part in picking the nominee.  I think the same was true of Bush - he won only 13 delegages in the primaries to Reagan's 1939.  Gerald Ford was the initial pick to be VP, and Bush was picked because he was so lukewarm no one would oppose him.  Cheney didn't run against GeeW in any primary - he was already on his team.  So I don't see the similarities.

My respect for Hillary Clinton is shot, completely, so I'll be the first to say I'm not the best one to ask on this.  But great minds think alike even when they disagree.

To hell with what she wants, let's make Rosi Efthim the next DSC chair.


Well, yes (0.00 / 0)
The people voting for her make up 48-49% of the Party.  The numbers coming out of Indiana and NC with regard to the % of Clinton supporters who would either vote for McCain or stay home were STAGGERING (like 50% in Indiana).  Even if 85% "come home" that's still a scary chunk that aren't going to be persuaded because Ed Rendell or Evan Bayh is the VP.

Additionally, sure her negatives are around 40.  Guess what? So will his be (in some polls, they are) shortly, once the GOP focuses their attack more.  That ad in North Carolina is only the beginning of this fight.  It's going to get worse and he can't be wasting time trying to mend the Party.  Choosing Clinton does that for him.


[ Parent ]
I have to disagree (4.00 / 2)
In the most recent NYT poll, Hillary's favorable/unfavorable numbers were 36/42 while Obama's were 39/34.  Only 15 percent said they were undecided on Clinton - meaning that if she picked up 2/3 of the undecideds, she'd still lose.  That isn't true when you consider the 21 percent who are undecided on Obama.

In a head-to-head matchup, Clinton manages to tie McCain with 46-46 while Obama wins handily with 50-38.  How is tying Obama to an anchor going to help him swim?

When asked about picking a VP, the breakdown for Hillary picking Obama was 65 for, 30 against, and 5 don't know.  If it is Obama picking Hillary for VP, then the numbers move to 59-37-4.  While there is still a large majority favoring the united ticket, it should be noted that six percent of Dems move away from the choice and one percent of the undecided make their mind up against the ticket.

The difference between Obama's negatives and Hillary's negatives is that she is known to not have any wiggle room at all.  She has a very high floor, but a very low ceiling.  Veeps may not win states, but Hillary can damn sure take some states out of play.  The most infuriating thing in this entire campaign for me has been the willingness of Hillary's supporters to deny the reality of how the bulk of Americans feel about her.  They aren't going to listen to anyone who has her on the ticket.  

The best way to ensure a Democratic victory is to have John McCain pick Hillary Clinton as a running mate.  The best way to hand the election to McCain is for her to be on Obama's ticket.

To hell with what she wants, let's make Rosi Efthim the next DSC chair.


[ Parent ]
Well timed diary Thurman (0.00 / 0)
That we can agree on.

As for the rest of your comment, my examples from the past were not intended to compare the presidential candidates' process of choosing VPs, but rather, were meant to be viewed through the eyes of the voters who elected them, in order to inform a VP choice now. So, I stand by them as instructive.

(Btw - I enjoyed your post, even if I mostly disagree with it.
Obama-Sebellius? You've got to be kidding.)


[ Parent ]
Obviously (4.00 / 1)
you are just trying to destroy the party.  You probably kick puppies whenever you get the chance, too.

/snark.

To hell with what she wants, let's make Rosi Efthim the next DSC chair.


[ Parent ]
why kidding? (0.00 / 0)
As a VP, Sebellius would bring most of the positives that Clinton does without any of the negatives.

Did anybody watch her response to the SOTU earlier this year?  I didn't.  Any thoughts?


[ Parent ]
two out of three ain't bad (0.00 / 0)
Sebellius and Richardson are my top two picks as well.  I like Napolitano as well, but when you consider the fact that she wasn't able to deliver Arizona for Obama during the primary election against Clinton, it is hard to imagine her putting it in play in the general election.

Wes Clark was an awful campaigner in 2004, doesn't offer nearly as much as Eric Shinsecki if you want someone with a military background (which I don't), and pissed off the Jewish community recently by making a Jim Moran-esque statement, linking the War in Iraq with the Pro-Israel community.

Barack Obama is going to have to work hard to compete with John McCain for the Jewish vote in November and cannot afford to get one percentage point less than the 76% that John Kerry got in 2004, especially in states like PA and possibly New Jersey where Kerry only won by 7% and McCain is much more popular than Bush.  The last thing that Obama would want to do is have a VP that hurts him with Jewish voters.

The one wildcard that I would like to throw into the mix is Chuck Hagel.  I just finished reading his book, which was a snore for the most part, but there were many times where the book read like a love letter to Barack Obama and Obama's approach to politics.

If John McCain decides to throw the Democrats a curve and picks Joe Lieberman to be his VP, I think that Obama should throw one right back at him by picking Hagel.  Hagel's opposition to the war in Iraq should be enough to pacify most liberals with concerns about his more conservative positions.

Harry Reid, Ed Rendell, Russ Feingold, Brad Henry, and Jim Webb would all be good picks as well.


[ Parent ]
Chuck Hagel (0.00 / 0)
Hagel's opposition to the war in Iraq should be enough to pacify most liberals with concerns about his more conservative positions.

It sure wouldn't pacify this liberal. In fact, it would inspire me to start looking for another ticket to support.  


[ Parent ]
seriously? (0.00 / 0)
Are you saying that the VP pick is such an important aspect of a President's candidacy that you would not vote for Barack Obama, because you didn't like the person he picked to be his VP?

It's not like Hagel would be Barack Obama's Dick Cheney, pulling the strings behind the scenes and putting his evil plans into action.

If you take a moment to read Hagel's book and can get through some of the boring parts, you will find that while there are clear policy differences on a number of issues, the important thing that they share that makes Hagel worth considering is  a commitment to changing how our federal government operates.

I also think that (like LBJ), if something were to happen to Obama while in office that would require Hagel to assume the office of the President, he would most likely work to follow through on Obama's policy vision rather than replace them with his own.  That's just the sense that I get from Hagel as a person, but I could be wrong.

Mind you, I don't necessarily think that he would be a better choice than either Sebellius or Richardson, but I do think that if McCain has the guts to choose Lieberman as his VP, which is highly unlikely, Obama would have no choice but to respond with a similarly outside-the-box VP pick.

Does anybody disagree that a McCain-Lieberman ticket would be extremely difficult to beat with the appeal that it would have to independents and Jewish voters (a demographic that Obama will have to work very hard to retain at the level of Democratic performance - 76% - that John Kerry received in 2004)?  Does anybody believe that the far right would actually stay home if Lieberman was McCain's pick?

Would anybody else here vote for Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader if Obama picked Hagel as his VP?


[ Parent ]
Agree! (4.00 / 1)
Well said, Jeff (per usual)!  VPs don't win states the way they use to, especially with how cynical today's media is (ohhhh he chose Strickland, thats because of Ohio!!!!).  

The fact is this really has been about a 51-49 primary fight.  The best way to unite the party is by pairing off and bringing the 2 factions together.


I just don't see an upside. (4.00 / 2)
Hillary has hard negatives of over 40% in large parts of the country. Obama is going to have enough gut level disdain as is being the first non-white candidate. No need to include 18 years of Limbaugh and co. smears and false memes into the mix.

I like Hillary, but she's nothing but a liability come fall.  


Veep (4.00 / 2)
I think Obama should go shopping for a running mate in Wisconsin.  The junior senator from that state.

Your dream team = my nightmare scenario (4.00 / 4)
Pardon me, but I'm still feeling way too close to the heat of this primary contest (to say nothing of threats to obliterate Iran, gas holidays poached from McCain, and the relentless propaganda encouraging the electorate to see Obama as merely "the black candidate") to get cozy with that idea.

Hillary Clinton certainly has redeeming qualities, and an exciting history, and she may put those on display again in the future. Hope so. But not now. Right now, I think she needs to go away for a while and reinvent herself.

Her credibility is shot with me too. And no, I don't think she brings anything to the ticket that other people can't bring better, without her staggering negatives.

Her attempt to paint him as unelectable has fallen as flat as his attempt to paint her as inexperienced.

And uhhh.... Obama did what? When did that ever happen?  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  


No, it doesn't. (4.00 / 2)
I have no problem with that statement.

I usually have little problem with people defending themselves against ridiculous accusations.

And what he was doing in that statement - inelegant as you may find it - is redefining experience as she described it (as though being married to the person in whom national trust is placed is equal to being that person).

Given her constant attempts to refer to him like he was some bus driver or computer programmer who had no history or right to her White House, I might have said something quite stronger if I were he.  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  


[ Parent ]
agree with Rosi and strongly disagree with Jeff (0.00 / 0)
I would sooner have Thomas Eagleton and his electroshock treatments as Obama's VP than Hillary.

The time has come for the Clintons to go away.  Unfortunately, they aren't going to and I wouldn't be surprised to see Hillary Clinton run for Governor of New York in 2010 (possibly with the assistance of a President Obama) and President in 2016.

While Bill was not anywhere near as bad of President as Dubya, Bush Sr., Reagan, or Nixon, and was probably better than Carter, which isn't saying much, by the standards set by TR, Wilson, FDR, and LBJ, he was not a good President by any stretch of the imagination, and I don't expect that Hillary would be much better.

Both are driven more by the power of the office of the Presidency than any grand vision for our country and our world.  Their "Third Way" brand of politics is just a nice way of giving people what they want rather than providing real leadership.

Barack Obama appears to have the kind of vision for our country that the greats of the 20th Century had and will have the potential to serve as a model for leaders to come throughout the 21st Century.

Choosing Hillary Clinton as his VP would absolutely be a step in the wrong direction.


[ Parent ]
Wrong Clinton... (0.00 / 0)
....if Obama is going to go that far; why not go the whole hog and ask Bill to be VP nominee!?!  ;-)

Throwing the first boulder :-) (4.00 / 1)
Hate to tell you but the "Internets" have not repealed the laws of presidential politics.  It is still 51 state-by-state elections that are winner-take-all (except ME).  You still need 270 votes to win.

The Democratic nominee has carried 24 states plus DC in three out of the last five elections for a total of 269 votes.  To put you over the top requires any one of the following:  Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, Nevada, Ohio and Tennessee.  Obama won the Louisiana and Missouri primaries for whatever it's worth.  The whole argument about winning a primary means that you are going to win the state is balderdash anyway.  What matters is the coalition you are able to put together in the general election.  If you have a relatively low ceiling, that is going to be harder to pull off.

Thurman is absolutely right about LBJ.  He was put on the ticket for one reason and one reason only:  Texas.  

The exit polling is shown to be less reliable.  That is why regular polls have shown that the "taking the marbles and going home" voters are very, very few.  Which is why (depending on the day and the poll) Obama is generally ahead of McCain by a better margin than Hillary is.  Hillary's numbers on "trustworthiness" and "favorability" are very, very poor.  The only popularity she would be able to transfer would be negative.

Hillary having thrown the whole kitchen sink into the race simply means that every time she says something positive about Obama, it will be taken as her willing to say anything to be one heartbeat away.  Bill and Hillary have attacked Obama as both unelectable and inexperienced.  That is going to be near impossible to walk back in the age of YouTube.

Which leads to the final (at least for now) problem:  the 42nd President of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton.  The big dog isn't going to stay on the porch.  In 2000, I believe he was fine with Gore's unwise decision not to have him campaign (at least in Arkansas or New Hampshire) because that allowed him to spend all of his time helping Hillary.  If one of the debates with McCain goes less well, does anyone think that Bill (or a surrogate like Carville or Davis) will be able to restrain himself from saying, "Hillary would have done better."  In fact, putting Hillary on the ticket just sets up the possibility of submarining the campaign in order for Hillary to run in 2012 for an open White House after McCain goes one and out.  After all, Hillary has tried to destroy Obama, not just defeat him.



No way ... (4.00 / 3)
I don't see in any way that Clinton brings any electoral college votes to the table that someone else couldn't better deliver.

It used to be that the second highest electoral college vote recipient got to be VP, but that's not the case for party nominations and rarely has been.

Frankly I would MUCH rather see Kathy Sebelius or Bill Richardson or someone else who may be able to deliver votes in a marginal area for Democrats.

But Clinton delivers NY and Illinois, two states Obama will win on his own. She and Bill couldn't deliver Arkansas for Gore, for goodness sake.

No, I don't think Clinton would make a good VP candidate.  She should stay in the Senate.


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