Why is our public transit system so bad?

Tip Jar [nt] (4.00 / 6)

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by: Dvd Avins @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 20:57:56 PM CDT

all i KNOW (0.00 / 0)

is that i am ready to give up my 1988 BMW for good (although he'll always have a home on the garage for nasty days) and take the train or bike everywhere i can.

It does involve a certain sacrifice of time and convenience but i think i can manage baby steps.  Maybe it would be cool for us to share our experiences of weening off the petrol here on the blog?

my governor supports equality.  

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by: Jay Lassiter @ Sat May 17, 2008 at 07:34:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Books have been written (4.00 / 3)

about transportation subsidies.  I've been studying the field for a decade and am still uncovering hidden price transfers.

Our public transport system doesn't work because our cities aren't built for them to work.  Schools are a perfect example - if we built schools in a single central area for a wide area, then we could build a transportation hub to service it.  Instead, we spread them all over creation.

Btw, a possible suggestion to make long commutes tolerable - an iPod that downloads all of the NPR podcasts will get you through a lot.  It doesn't help with so many other issues, but it's one step towards making it tolerable.

Will commit political science for food.

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by: Thurman Hart @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 21:35:15 PM CDT

its racist (4.00 / 1)

it was designed to keep black/urban people out of the suburbs.  I go to school in newark, and it is still cost efficient for me to drive, because there is not a straight way to get to newark by public transportation. It really is a shame. Why don't all suburbs have connections to the three major cities? It makes no sense.

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by: doughnutman @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 22:45:39 PM CDT

Huh? (3.00 / 1)

Newark is about the only place in the state that you can get to from most areas anywhere near it. Provided you're heading downtown. Where do you commute from?

And not everything racist in effect was designed intentionally that way. It's often that the needs of the poor, especially but not exclusively Black, don't get taken into account much. Occasionally it's actively malicious, but not nearly as often as it seems from the inside, I think.

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by: Dvd Avins @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 23:03:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

In Long Island, yes. (3.00 / 1)

Robert A. Caro was fortunate enough to be able to interview Moses on seven occasions[15]. He was also able to conduct 19 interviews with Sidney M. Shapiro, Moses's General Manager,and chief engineer of the Long Island State Park Commission, who worked for Moses for forty years, and was the man who carried out Moses's instructions to build the bridges on his parkways too low for buses[16]. In his notes on sources Mr. Caro writes: "It is thanks to Shapiro, more than any other source that I came to understand Moses' attitude towards Negroes...."[17]

For example, the construction of low overpasses on parkways were made purposely too low for buses to clear, and the veto of extension of the Long Island Rail Road to Jones Beach, were to prevent the poor and racial minorities (largely dependent on public transit) from accessing the beach while providing easy car access for wealthier, white groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

A completely different situation than here in NJ. But never the less a compelling story that gets repeated in too many communities.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:43:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Re: (0.00 / 0)

My guess is sprawl means there isn't enough density to make public transportation efficient or competitive until gas gets really expensive. In the short term the best we can probably hope for is to build more park and rides. Long term, we need public policy that rewards smart growth and discourages sprawl.

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by: Juan Melli @ Fri May 16, 2008 at 23:09:02 PM CDT

Correct on density (0.00 / 0)

Short term ? Also we can shift large zoning of older 1 family houses to 2 family. Some of these grand old houses in towns like Maplewood, the  Orange's, & Montclair are close to NJTransit stations, walking distance even. Many of these houses have multiple entry doors and staircases allowing for a creative renovation that provides the separation for a 2 family house.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:54:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

PATCO, DRPA (4.00 / 1)

I can speak to some of the local public transportation issues in South Jersey. Part of the problem is that regional subway/rail lines aren't up to par, and money for organizations such as the Delaware River Port Authority have dried up. The latter was exacerbated when Rendell refused to hold DRPA meetings, and therefore there wasn't a quorum, when N.J. and Pa were at an impasse over Delaware River dredging. PATCO is expanding, though, and they have plans to extend their line into Glassboro (smart move, IMO).
But the rail cars are antiquated, and the DRPA have never been a well-run, corruption-free public entity. I imagine that's the same
for many of our rail lines in the state and nation.

To get to Philadelphia via PATCO, I would need to allocate well over an hour to get to Temple (one has to get to another line when in Philly), when it would be cheaper and half the time in my car, much like what Dvd Akins encountered in going to Alexandria. And then in Philly, the SEPTA lines and transport is in a dilapidated state; the buses, trains, and routes really need modernization.

Believe it or not, despite our rightful complaints about the public transportation problems along the eastern seaboard, some of the fastest growing cities in the country in the South (Charlotte, Atlanta) have virtually no public transit systems. There simply doesn't seem to be a regional or national approach to public transit issues.

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by: Martin @ Sat May 17, 2008 at 08:24:59 AM CDT

Sabotaging Public Transport.... (4.00 / 3)

is an old story.

http://www.lovearth.net/gmdeli...

This is not about a "plot" hatch by wild-eyed corporate rogues, but rather about a consummate business strategy crafted by Alfred P. Sloan, Jr., the MIT-trained genius behind General Motors, to expand auto sales and maximize profits by eliminating streetcars. In 1922, according to GM's own files, Sloan established a special unit within the corporation which was charged, among other things, with the task of replacing America's electric railways with cars, trucks and buses.

A year earlier, in 1921, GM lost $65 million, leading Sloan to conclude that the auto market was saturated, that those who desired cars already owned them, and that the only way to increase GM's sales and restore its profitability was by eliminating its principal rival: electric railways.

At the time, 90 percent of all trips were by rail, chiefly electric rail; only one in 10 Americans owned an automobile. There were 1,200 separate electric street and interurban railways, a thriving and profitable industry with 44,000 miles of track, 300,000 employees, 15 billion annual passengers, and $1 billion in income. Virtually every city and town in America of more than 2,500 people had its own electric rail system.

General Motors sought to reduce competition from electric railways through a variety of measures, including the use of freight leverage. GM, for decades, was the nation's largest shipper of freight over railroads, which controlled some of America's most extensive railways. By wielding freight traffic as a club, GM persuaded railroads to abandon their electric rail subsidiaries.

There's tons of info out there on this one aspect/element of the war on public transportation.

In a sane world, rail travel and mass transit would be ubiquitous, universal and subsidized to the point of being nearly free.

The result of that being that, while many (if not most)  folks would want to own a car, the usage would drop by 90%.

Imagine the effects on our economy and our health if relatively non polluting public transportation could reliably move you around 24/7 to just about anywhere you needed to be, say, within a ten minute stroll!

If the enlightened/informed political will manifests....we (i.e. our descendants ;-) can spend spend the 21st and 22nd centuries undoing the sheer greed motivated stupidities of the 19th and 20th centuries and a whole new world of truly human scale transportation (and everything else) can be sanely developed.  

It's all connected folks!  Universal access to affordable high quality housing, transportation, health care and a clean sane physical and psychical environment are all within our reach!

There's no good reason for things to be as perversely screwed up as they are.    

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by: Nick Lento @ Sat May 17, 2008 at 09:29:54 AM CDT

BAck in the 1960's the US was at a cross roads (4.00 / 1)

We decided to develop the hiway and airline service. Development of Rail transport, inherently more efficient, languished.

South Korea has a 300Mph train, I think the French and Germans do too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

NY to LA in 10 hours, brings  a new meaning to DHL & UPS.

The US now is in dire need of a rail system for the next century. We are in the position of playing catch up.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:14:49 PM CDT

When you take the train (0.00 / 0)

you're paying someone to drive the train. How much  per hour would you pay someone to drive you to Virginia?  

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by: Wesleylake @ Sun May 18, 2008 at 15:05:19 PM CDT

Not much (4.00 / 1)

And when 300 people split the cost of the driver, it should cost much, either.

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by: Dvd Avins @ Sun May 18, 2008 at 18:21:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Trains use less energy per 100 pounds (0.00 / 0)

moved 100 miles, than cars, trucks, boats or airplanes.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Mon May 19, 2008 at 14:26:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bad 'public transit' why? (1.00 / 1)

May I take a stab at it? First, it's not 'public transit'. It is a gooferment boondoggle to reward friends, punish enemies, and feather various politicians' nests. Once you realize that it will all make sense. Based on that standard, it makes perfect sense. It delivers graft, jobs for supporters, and a ton of campaign issues to run on.

Want good 'public transit'?

It's easy. Just throw the gooferment out of it. Spin it out to the employees. Auction it off. Of best, give every taxpayer a share of stock in it. No regulations, no laws, no mucking about in any way by the gooferment.

Want it faster?

Eliminate all taxes on earnings from providing transportation services.

We'll have all sorts of solutions, sizes, and shapes. Heck, with that type of incentives, I'll go into supplying the public with transit.

alibertarianin08824
at gmail dot com
 

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by: alibertarianin08824 @ Sun May 18, 2008 at 21:18:27 PM CDT

The US has not had any real investment in (0.00 / 0)

rail transport in 40 years.

So the Boondoogle effect is not geramine.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Mon May 19, 2008 at 14:35:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

$100? (0.00 / 0)

Who are you kidding, Alexandria VA on $100? It costs $50 at least just to fill up, is usually more than 1 tank of gas round trip, plus tolls, insurance costs and wear and tear? Come on now, this is basic math. $170 may seem steep at first glance, but actually do the math, and its totally reasonable.

As for the inconvenience of your commute, perhaps if it was such a priority for you, you could move somewhere transit-accessible. Its a serious problem that now gas prices are high, and everyone wants the transit brought to them, as opposed to living in more dense, transit-friendly and sustainable communities.  

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by: Holly_Golightly @ Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:25:45 AM CDT

I did the math. You're wrong. (0.00 / 0)

From Central Jersey to DC is 200 miles. Round trip is 400. That's 17 gallons. At $3.50.gal, that's $60. Driving through Philadelphia on I-95 instead of taking the NJTP and DelMemBr is not only cheaper, it's usually 20 minutes faster, so the tolls don't amount to much. I don't buy new, expensive cars. The total cost just isn't that high.

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by: Dvd Avins @ Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:13:32 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Looks like a V-8 to me (0.00 / 0)

My v-6, 400 miles at 13 gallons, 30 mpg.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Mon May 19, 2008 at 14:32:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]