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No Deposit, No Return

by: huntsu

Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:29:11 AM EDT


Apparently New Jersey is considering imposing a deposit on beverage containers in order to encourage an increase in recycling.  I'm not really sure I can think of a stupider idea, ever, given the situation of recycling in some areas of New Jersey.

New Jerseyans may soon pay as much as 20 cents extra when buying beverages in bottles and cans as part of an effort to boost recycling and combat litter.

The Assembly environment committee is slated Monday to discuss a 10 cent deposit for bottles and cans less than 24 ounces and 20 cents for larger ones up to 3 liters.

OK, it's possible that even though people will likely still toss their Bud in the street someone will come by and pick it up to collect the dime.  So that's the litter argument.

But the environmental argument doesn't wash for me.  For one, there are many counties that have excellent recycling programs that will collapse under a deposit law.  Currently paper, plastic and foam recycling is subsidized by the money generated from tin, steel and glass recycling plus a little tax money.  

Remove tin, steel and glass from the recycling program stream and it will become so expensive that counties like Somerset and Middlesex will have to end or restructure the programs so much that they will lose their effectiveness.

Consumers would get the money back by returning the container to newly created redemption centers or to retailers.

So consumers can use gasoline to bring their beverage bottles to redemption centers to get their money back.  What about chili cans?  Plastic tomato soup bottles?  Vegetable oil glass bottles?  Where do those go?

If the counties and municipalities providing service have to reduce curbside pickup then people will have a choice -- put them in the trash or drive them to a second redemption center.  Unless, of course, the deposit redemption centers also take no deposit containers.  Which will make everything even more complex and confusing.

And it turns out that a "benefit" of the deposit is revenue for the state:

The bill also would let the state keep uncollected deposits and use the money for environmental projects such as land preservation, litter cleanup and park beautification. New York has had as much as $80 million in annual unredeemed deposits.

"We can get some money back into the state, which right now we're in dire need of, and secondly help keep New Jersey green," said Assemblywoman Valerie Vainieri Huttle, D-Bergen.

Huh?  Keeping money from deposits on drink containers that were littered or put into landfills is a way to keep New Jersey green?  Is it worth 10 cents into a mini-Superfund to put plastic bottles into the landfills?

We need money in the state to pay for environmental cleanup and preservation, sure.  But this would be revenue based on anti-environmental behavior!

New Jersey is densely populated enough that we can handle curbside recycling.  A bill requiring towns of a certain size or counties to create and manage a curbside recycling program subsidized by a split (ratio TBD) between property and state taxes would make the most sense.  It would allow for all recyclable materials to be collected in one step at the home, and taken to one central separation point.

It would be significantly simpler, have a much greater level of efficiency, allow for collection of a larger number of material types, and provide a consistent program across the state.

But creating a statewide deposit program to improve recycling percentages based on what is inside the containers rather than the material that makes up the container just makes no sense to me.

huntsu :: No Deposit, No Return
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No Deposit, No Return | 23 comments
I agree (0.00 / 0)
It's not enough money to change most people's actions, but it will destroy the curbside programs that do work. In my town, the recycling pickup is free and we pay for every regular harbage bag -- in others, there are coupons and rewards for recycling.  All of that will be destroyed so the state can get its hands on a little money.

Currently Hawaii is busy passing laws to force Wal-Mart and the like to open redemption centers, since there are not enough actual redemption centers.  

Chris Christie forced a company to endow a professorship at the law school he went to.


I don't. (0.00 / 0)
Hey. Back to New Jersey, shall we?

[ Parent ]
What a bunch of crap (0.00 / 0)
Great. So now it is not enough that we already segregate and recycle all of our bottles. I am now going to have to schlep them back to the store to get my money back!  What a waste of my time!

What a bunch of sense. (0.00 / 0)
What productive use of MY time!

[ Parent ]
Very successful in NY, MI, ME, CT, VT, HI, IA, CA, OR, DE, MA (0.00 / 0)
The Smart Container Act is modeled after Michigan's deposit bill where 97.3% of the containers are returned.  In NJ 50% of aluminum and 30% of plastics are being recycled.  In NJ you will be able to return bottles and cans to any retailer in addition to redemption centers to handle larger quantities.  In NY they have Reverse Vending Machines making it easy for the consumer.  Deposits are source for fundraising by church groups, scouting, little league, band groups, PTAs, etc.  Recycling will continue to take detergent bottles, tin cans, milk bottles, newspaper, cardboard, etc.  Municipalities will save on their recycling program costs, as the cost of recycling beverage containers will be self paid and handled by the industry, not government.  Maine has too many redemption centers because these are lucrative businesses too.  NJ, a coastal state, also has a responsibility to do something about plastic floatables.

Apples and Oranges (0.00 / 0)
I think the numbers you are quoting are not 1-1.  97.3% or containers that have deposits are returned in MI, but that doesn't include all the containers that DON'T have deposits.

50% of aluminum and 30% of plastics are recycled in NJ, but that's a gross number of all aluminum and plastic as opposed to beverage aluminum and plastic.

Additionally, I think that we could drastically improve our recycling efforts by requiring businesses to recycle just as many municipalities and counties require homeowners to do.  That would jack the numbers up dramatically.  Add in a requirement for local public garbage cans to be sorted, and I will bet we can get to a very high number without creating a deposit system.  


[ Parent ]
Worked great in MI (4.00 / 1)
The Michigan program really was great.  Where I lived we had both regular recycling and the deposit.

You wouldn't be making any extra trips.  You'd just bring them with you when you go grocery shopping.

As far as the uncollected deposits, it's not strictly litter or landfills.  If the label falls off the bottle you can't return it (because they can't verify you purchased it in the state).  So in that case you throw it in regular recycle.  Also, there's a lot of people who drive through our state each day and buy a soda for the road and leave.  

And, for those who may throw the occassional BYOB party/bbq/bonfire, you either have a lot less to clean up at the end of the night or you make a little money.  

Obviously, I liked it there and I wouldn't be opposed to it here.


[ Parent ]
But ... (0.00 / 0)
I don't make any trips now.  They pick it up at our curb.  The only stuff I have to bring somewhere is hazardous materials and plastic bags.

[ Parent ]
Also ... (0.00 / 0)
We fill a big container with recyclables (cans, bottles) every other week and put it out for recycling.  

If you drive an SUV or pickup, that's not a problem to bring to the store.  If you drive a small car and have two kids, there's nowhere to put it.


[ Parent ]
Glad you recycle (4.00 / 1)
I'll have to respectfully agree to disagree with you.  Like I said, I liked the program.  It took some getting used to for me, but it really wasn't as bad as you're making it sound.  

[ Parent ]
Recycling soda bottles (0.00 / 0)
isn't going to happen unless they change the material of which they are made.

Will commit political science for food.

I must be missing something... (0.00 / 0)
If the deposit only covers beverage containers (which are not made of tin or steel), why would this impact the county recycling programs? You stated that those programs exist on the money from tin, steel, and glass. Why do you feel people will not continue to seperate the steel, tin, and glass for recycling? Why would a deposit on plastic stop that?
 

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

Glass bottles, tin cans (4.00 / 1)
This isn't just a deposit on plastic bottles.  It also includes glass bottles and tin cans.

[ Parent ]
Except this is New Jersey (0.00 / 0)
You know Trenton will find a way to eff this up.

Do you really think the "extra deposits" will go towards the intended need?  It will be diverted the first fiscal year implemented.

How long until that 20 cent deposit becomes a dollar to "increase revenue" or to pay for the operations of the redemption centers because of "cost overruns"

The less we can keep Trenton from directly affecting the cost of goods the better.  It might be a great idea for states with competient legislatures but not here.


bottle deposit idea: An Inconvenient Truth (4.00 / 1)
A bottle deposit law in New Jersey is an idea long promoted by environmental advocates whose time has finally arrived.

I recall twenty years ago during the Tom Kean Sr. and Jim Florio administrations, New Jersey's statewide recycling program was in full bloom and very successful. During the Whitman administration, however, the program became deflated and collapsed in many places. Although good people continue to recycle, the program has never really recovered. Recycling rates have dropped to about 32%. Recycling in 2008 is a mere shadow of what it was in the late '80s.

Twenty years ago we were not experiencing the same level of usage of bottled water and a variety of other sports drinks. In 2008, the consumption of these beverages reached explosive levels and so has their abandonment on the streets, highways, parklands and waterways. It's a mess out there and getting worse, in case you had not noticed.

River and park cleanups routinely pick up hundreds and hundreds of ugly discarded beverage containers on any given day. Thousands and thousands of bottles are picked up every year by environmental organization cleanup projects. And that's barely scratching the surface of the problem because they can't be everywhere all the time cleaning up.

A previous comment pointed out that there are 11 other states currently enjoying bottle deposits. The New Jersey proposal seems to be the best of the bunch because it is modeled after Michigan's much heralded program. That state's 10 cent deposits have resulted in a 97% recycling rate!

The great Al Gore earned a Nobel Prize teaching us about an "Inconvenient Truth". We have learned that our environment has been under unimaginable stress for decades.

A bottle deposit law for New Jersey is another step in the process of readjusting ourselves to a new lifestyle that is more sensitive to the needs of Planet Earth.

What will we bequeath to future generations? A large and environmentally dangerous pile of empty bottles clogging our rivers, streams and beaches forever?



Yeah, I'm unconvinced (0.00 / 0)
until we change the materials we use to make bottles, then it is simply useless.  What difference does it make if I throw away a dozen coke bottles or if Jersey City does?

Will commit political science for food.

[ Parent ]
Other stuff (4.00 / 1)
While it may not be the best for drinking out of a second time, there's a lot of other uses for the recycled plastic.  Building materials, clothing fibers, etc.

[ Parent ]
Of course (0.00 / 0)
it can be used, but most of it isn't.  Most of it gets stuck back into landfills.  So what does it matter if we trade quarters back and forth a bit before we do it?

If we are going to mandate a program of dragging our trash back to the place where we buy our food, then why not at least mandate that the bottles be made of something that can simply be scrubbed clean and re-used?

Will commit political science for food.


[ Parent ]
What you said. (0.00 / 0)
What happened to:
If being civilized means that I must turn a blind eye to injustice, let me remain a barbarian.
...?
I am absolutely positive that your extreme opposition to recycling can assuredly be considered injustice to the world that we share.

[ Parent ]
What you said from another perspective. :) (0.00 / 0)
Besides, your improper grammar detracts from your credibility. I am almost positive that you are above high school, which I am currently in.

[ Parent ]
The "extreme opposition" (2.00 / 2)
is to wasting our time on useless banalities.  If we continue to use the same materials to make bottles, then it matters little whether they are thrown in the garbage stream by an individual or by a municipality or by a store.

Or, to be blunt, so that people like yourself can understand - it would be better to mandate that sodas are sold in bottles that can be re-used immediately rather than trying second-hand efforts at trying to fix a problem after the fact.

Will commit political science for food.


[ Parent ]
Let's Go Back To The Bottles... (0.00 / 0)
Glass also doesn't leach chemicals into the contents.

I like the idea of the deposit as it would force a more complete recycling.

For those who don't have the time to go to the store/center to redeem the deposit I bet there will be neighborhood kids (or poor folk trying to put a gallon or two into their gas tanks) who would be more than pleased to stop by and pick take them off your hands.

I remember scrounging coke bottles to get the 2 cent deposit as a child.   Walking away from the store with a couple of bucks was a big deal for a poor kid.

I'm sorry to say that it seems that we're going have lots of poor people in America for the forseeable future.....thanks to the cleptocratic practices of the Bush's and the Ferriero's.

It wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that the over all corruption tax was 30% of every dollar spent.......but that's another kind of waste.


[ Parent ]
Bottle Deposit gains support (0.00 / 0)
At a hearing of the Assembly Environment committee this week, the bottle deposit law picked up strong endorsements from NJ Sierra, NJ Environmental Federation, the NJ League of Women Voters, the Director of the Clifton Recycling Program, the Container Recycling Institute and Governor Jon Corzine who commented on his support of bottle deposit legislation to the press after the hearing.

I think it is clear that a bottle deposit is an environmentally sound method of helping to clear up the enormous amount of discarded beverage containers all over the state in our rivers, parks, beaches, streets and highways.

I've spoken with some seniors who happily recall their youth when 2 cent and 5 cent deposits were very popular among neighborhood children in the 1930s and 1940s.

This law could even help non-profit charities, little leagues, scout troops and the rest to dig up some extra money for their causes.

This is a very cool idea and it's about time we returned to it. Everything old is new again.


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