New Jersey, 2008 or Mississippi, 1964?

I'm glad (4.00 / 1)

that you wrote about this.  I was just flabbergasted when I read about it and couldn't figure out how to say what I was thinking.  Thanks.

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by: Thurman Hart @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 20:59:24 PM UTC

This is horriflying (0.00 / 0)

I hadn't heard about this yet. Thanks for letting us know.

People of small minds will have this kind of reaction, and stupidly act on it. I can only hope this is an isolated incedent- but somehow, I doubt it.  

-Sharon GR

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by: Sharon GR @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 21:17:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not an Isolated Incident (0.00 / 0)

If you payed any attention this year, you would know this was not an isolated incident, there were more than plenty incidents recorded of McCain signs being vandalized and McCain supporters being harassed.

Awful, terrible journalism, here. Selectively citing incidents instead of taking the time to research and present the political bigotry that exists on both sides.

None of this type of behavior is excusable, but surely the ones who committed such intolereance towards Obama supporters do not read BlueJersey.

Perhaps the ones who vandalized my neighbor's McCain signs read BlueJersey, and if truly your goal is to remove this hatred, you would address both sides.

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by: Andy Grey @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 21:40:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Or (4.00 / 1)

you could just write about it yourself, since you are the one with firsthand knowledge.

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by: Thurman Hart @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 22:04:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

so, a lot of crosses got burned (4.00 / 1)

on republican lawns in your neighborhood, Andy? do tell ...

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by: denniscmcgrath @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 22:04:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

34 Hate Groups in NJ (0.00 / 0)

are being tracked by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel...

And many are a lot closer than 60 minutes to Manhattan.

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by: denniscmcgrath @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 21:41:30 PM UTC

Not all blue (0.00 / 0)

Dennis beat me to it.  I was going to respond to the post with a link to the SPLC.

Look at the whole Map of Hate Groups (Dennis linked to the New Jersey map).  Note that New Jersey ranks 7th in the number of total hate groups, the highest outside of the South and California:

California (80)
Texas (67)
Florida (49)
South Carolina (45)
Georgia (42)
Tennessee (38)
New Jersey (34 - tie)
Virginia (34 - tie)

We even have one more hate group than our racist, bitter neighbors in Pennsylvania.

Two caveats to this:
1.  The map includes all hate groups, not just white supremacist groups (6 of New Jersey's 34 are classified as "Black Separatist" groups).
2.  This tells us nothing about the number of groups or total membership as a percentage of total population.

Still, it goes to show that even though most of NJ is tolerant, there is still a prominent undercurrent of hate in the Great Garden State.

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by: rfoley @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 22:05:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

so then NJ has 28 hate groups (0.00 / 0)

Why classify black separatists as hate groups?

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 23:23:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

re: so then NJ has 28 hate groups (4.00 / 1)

Here's the SPLC's own definition of why they include "Black Separatist" groups:

Black separatists typically oppose integration and racial intermarriage, and they want separate institutions -- or even a separate nation -- for blacks. Most forms of black separatism are strongly anti-white and anti-Semitic, and a number of religious versions assert that blacks -- not Jews -- are the Biblical "chosen people" of God.

Although the Southern Poverty Law Center recognizes that much black racism in America is, at least in part, a response to centuries of white racism, it believes racism must be exposed in all its forms. White groups espousing beliefs similar to Black Separatists would be considered clearly racist. The same criterion should be applied to all groups regardless of their color.

(my emphasis)

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by: rfoley @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 00:28:29 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why (4.00 / 1)

would you consider "black separatists" as being motivated by something other than what "white separatists" are motivated?

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by: Thurman Hart @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:20:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

motivation (0.00 / 0)

At their core, these groups are both motivated by fear and hatred, but the black separatists' fear and hatred is a response to the fears and hatreds of others, while the white supremacists fears and hatreds are a product of their own ignorance.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, there haven't been a significant number of reported incidents of black separatists burning anything on anybody else's lawn.

It seems like black separatism, if anything, is more self-defeating as it exponentially magnifies the disadvantages African-Americans experience on a daily basis by causing the black separatist to disengage from a society that is progressing, too slowly of course, but surely, and which seeks to engage people who have been rejected by it in the past.

Conversely, the white supremacists actions are completely directed at others and harm others more than selves.

Obviously, both black separatists and white supremacists are racist, but if states are going to be ranked by the number of hate groups that exist within their borders, I think that some differentiation should exist.

While it would not be ideal to live next door to a home that was used for black separatist meetings, I think that I could live with it, especially in the current housing market.

But if the house next door to me became a skinhead clubhouse, I think that I would take what I could get and move as quickly as possible.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 11:57:54 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Racism (0.00 / 0)

plain and simple.

No race has a monopoly on racism, and it shouldn't be tolerated or excused in any group.  It is pathetic that you would excuse one group's actions and intentions based on those of some other group.

From the Southern Law Poverty Center:

"Dominique Latrice Pate, 20, was charged with simple assault, battery of a police officer, resisting an officer, disturbing the peace and hate crime for allegedly punching a police officer in the face, saying she hated law enforcement and white people."

snip

A teenager was attacked on a school bus by a gang of about five teens because the victim is white.

snip

An anti-white epithet and an obscenity were written on a man's truck.

snip

"Mahmoud Alkhazaleh, 53, was charged with a hate crime, aggravated battery and vehicle invasion after he and his three sons allegedly pulled a white man out of a car, hit him and called him a racial slur. His sons, Ala Alkhazaleh, 27; Ali Alkhazaleh, 23; and Ahmad Alkhazaleh, 20, were charged with aggravated battery and vehicle invasion. "

Yeah, you're right.  No one gets hurt or anything, so it's okay.

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by: Thurman Hart @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 17:45:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

differentiating is not excusing (0.00 / 0)

Obviously the incidents that you have cited are horrible, but they represent a much different dynamic than a burning cross.  They are very different problems with very different solutions.

Does the SPLC have statistics on the number of black on white hate crimes compared to the number of white on black hate crimes.  Without doing any research, I am going to guess that the former far outnumbers the latter.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 05:48:00 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

More SPLC (0.00 / 0)

I regularly read the SPLC's quarterly Intelligence Report, which is available for free online (current issue and archives).  Note that a list of the articles in each issue runs down the right side of the page.

For a list of selected hate incidents, you can also check out For the Record, which you can filter by state.  

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by: rfoley @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 22:16:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm embarassed (0.00 / 0)

but not surprised.

You might want to report the incident to the Southern Poverty Law Center or the Anti-Defamation League.

Here is a SPL list of hate groups in NJ:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel...

I see few, if any bias crimes listed, such as the one you described.  Most of the time the groups send out hate mail or put flyers on car windshields.

Still, one of the groups is about 5 miles from my house.  I have often considered the possibility of physical or property damage, even a burning cross on my lawn.  This because of who I am, who I live with and how I choose to live my life.

Come to think of it, why not send a copy of the article to Garrett and ask that he comment on it.

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by: SmartyJones @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 21:44:12 PM UTC

heard about this earlier today (0.00 / 0)

Why did this make you think twice about where you live?  I was shocked when I heard the story until I heard that it happened in Warren County.

I don't know if any scientific research has been done on the subject, but it seems like there is a correlation between clean air and bigotry.

Maybe breathing polluted air like so many of us in the suburban and urban parts of the state do requires our brains to work harder to filter out the crap that is connected to the oxygen  as it goes from the air to our lungs and through our bloodstreams.

Of course, not everyone who lives in "God's country" are bigots.  People like Mike in Warren and Rosi in Hunterdon are the exceptions, but maybe they are so much smarter that the others in their midst, because their brains are required to work harder to keep their outrage from driving them to go postal when confronted with crap like this.

How else can you explain it?

Maybe we should rethink the Highlands Act after all.  In addition to the pollution that development and sprawl would bring, it might also enable more people in the blue parts of the state to move to the red parts of the state and make them purple.

It worked in Mercer County.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 23:21:14 PM UTC

5 signs torn off my van (0.00 / 0)

in Montclair. Nothing like in the diary.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 23:35:14 PM UTC

This is why it happens... (4.00 / 1)

"It's hard to believe, in New Jersey, in the twenty-first century , this kind of thing happens. Maybe in backwoods West Virginia, or in redneck Wyoming."  Everyone always believes it only happens 'somewhere else.'  It happens everywhere and that is why you always have to be vigilant on prevention.
As a transplanted Southerner, I am always disappointed when people assume that I am racist. In reality, I have found more racist people in the North than in the South. I was raised to believe that Northerners were much more open-minded.  Since living so long in the North now, I can tell you that is not true. What is especially scary in the North is the hidden racism.  Give me up front racism and prejudice anyday, I can fight that.  I cannot always fight the kind that is hidden behind closed doors or in the dark.

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by: TerriShirley @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:45:33 AM UTC

not much difference between... (0.00 / 0)

West Virginia, Wyoming, and Warren County.

Maybe it has to do with the letter "W".

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 12:00:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You know what (0.00 / 0)

why don't you just shut up?  Honestly.  If all you're going to do is show how small minded and hateful you can be, why not just shut up?  

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by: Thurman Hart @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 17:35:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

you first (0.00 / 0)

Texas doesn't begin with a W, but it might as well.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 05:49:50 AM UTC

[ Parent ]