NJ Clinton Delegate Did NOT Say He Wouldn't Vote For Obama

To my knowledge (0.00 / 0)

you are free to vote for whoever you want.  Being a Democrat does not mean you are enslaved to the power structure.  Thank God, for that.

My understanding, if you are a delegate, is that you are tied to be a voting representative of Democrats at the convention.  After that, it's up to you.  

I've said many times that I couldn't vote for Obama if he puts Hillary Clinton on the ticket.  I wouldn't vote against him - it would be hard to pull the lever for the man John McCain has become.  

So go with your gut, Steven.  You're the one who looks back out of your mirror.  Not Creed.  Not me.  And not Sam Nunn.

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by: Thurman Hart @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 00:55:32 AM UTC

By the way (0.00 / 0)

I split the diary so it didn't take up the whole front page.

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by: Thurman Hart @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 00:55:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

We're All For Obama.... (0.00 / 0)

....let us not allow a reporter's "hypothetical" gambit cause undue divisiveness.

I understand Steven's (hypothetical) position, and respect it.  

The real/actual bottom line, as Steven said is that they guy "bleeds Democrat" and that's obviously true.

In retrospect Steven, Barney Frank's answer was more politic, but hey, you have a right to speak your mind and you have (imho) political capital to spare.

Nunn is a "nunn"entitity in terms of the VP pick; though having his name out there serves some purposes in re establishment/conventional foreign policy cred.

(For what it's worth....at this point, I like Biden, so long as he's willing to forget about "Senatorial Niceties" and tear John McCain's Rovian campaign apart lie from lie ...as opposed to limb from limb ;-).

Meanwhile let's all (metaphorically) "kiss and make up" and focus on defending Obama and demolishing McCain's campaign with thermonuclear battering rams of truth.

Peace!!!

BTW  Here's some vintage Goldstein.....

With 5000 Democrats like this in NJ the old politics would be totally swept away within one election cycle.

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by: Nick Lento @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 01:31:58 AM UTC

Thank you Nick and Thurman! (4.00 / 1)

I'm also 40 lbs down from the above video -- say, anyone have any progressive Democratic diet tips?  It's so freaking hard.

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by: Steven Goldstein, Garden State Equality chair @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 01:50:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're already doing better than me (0.00 / 0)

I've actually gained weight since starting my diet.  If only pie were dietary!!!

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by: Thurman Hart @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 02:41:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Putting attention-grabbing over loyalty (4.00 / 2)

As an American, we all have the right to vote for whomever we want.  Even as delegates to the Convention, you are free to vote for whomever you want in the booth.  Realistically after the Convention, you can do whatever you want because they can't take your position away after the Convention is over.  But, before you go to the Convention, you are bound to support the nominee whether that person is your preferred candidate or not.  The crazy woman from Wisconsin was bounced.

However, notice that Republicans who were asked about the possibility of a pro-choice running mate for McCain all said that they would still vote for him.  I sincerely doubt they are telling him that privately, but that is another matter.

Friedman asked Steven because everyone knows that Steven has shown a willingness to bask in the limelight.  If Steven had said, "I'm not going to bother with hypotheticals," he probably wouldn't have been quoted.  Instead, Steven made the remark that Friedman was hoping for.

I am really tired of Democrats who continue to prove Mark Twain correct.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 02:55:42 AM UTC

It's killing ya, aint it LOL (0.00 / 0)

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by: Steven Goldstein, Garden State Equality chair @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 03:19:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Rather than LOLing it off... (0.00 / 0)

You might want to reflect on the underlying critique.

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by: EWO @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 12:28:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not me. Just the party. n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 14:01:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think you mean Will Rogers (0.00 / 0)

Your talking about the organized political party crack? That wasn't Twain. Aside from that, I completely agree.

I don't think I'd criticize Steven for saying what he did in a GLBT, progressive, or Democratic Party meeting that wasn't being covered by the media. But it was a less than ideal thing to say to a general media reporter.

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by: Dvd Avins @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 04:02:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

my bad. And I would agree with your perspective. (0.00 / 0)

Notice that it is still a headline at PolitickerNJ.com, which appeared to be Steven's goal anyway.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 14:00:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

My Loyalty: It Doesn't Include Sesame Street (4.00 / 1)

I'm as loyal a Democrat as the come. But there's no way I could ever support an Obama/Cookie Monster ticket. Ever. Hoarding America's cookies...that's not change you can believe in.

Adding, of course, that in hypothetical land, an Obama/Cookie Monster ticket is probably more likely than Obama/Nunn.

Obama/Nunn ain't happening. Let's get over it. We're all on the same side.

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by: Brian McGinnis @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 04:58:09 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Mallowmars (0.00 / 0)

Oh, you cookie gays are all alike. Mallowmars, chocolate chip, marriage, marriage, blah, blah, blah.

He's not picking Nunn, and we all know he's not. It's a pretty safe bet Steven's taking speaking out about him, and this is only a real problem in Sillyland.  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 11:03:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

loyalty to your employer is laudatory. n/t (1.00 / 1)

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by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 13:58:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're Right! (0.00 / 0)

I've been bought off! I'm a sellout!

It couldn't possibly be because I thought the underlying critique was laughable.

And I'm serious about Cookie Monster...

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by: Brian McGinnis @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 18:43:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't think (0.00 / 0)

we should aspire to be like Republicans.

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by: Thurman Hart @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:17:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

unfair (0.00 / 0)

As someone who is often interviewed by reporters and never quite sure what they will take away from the interaction, and what they will quote, I sympathize with Steven.  He is always himself and his motives are beyond reproach.  You have to be out there to get heard and sometimes, you get misheard or misquoted, but you cannot hold Steven responsible for what a reporter chooses to say that he said.  Go by what Steven has to say for himself.  Like me, he ain't shy.  He will straighten out the story, which he has done.

One Vote.  Yours.  It really does matter.

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by: carolh @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 14:34:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Steven ISN'T saying that he was misquoted, misunderstood, etc. (0.00 / 0)

If so, that would be different.  Steven is saying that he knew what he was saying and what he was being asked and why he was being asked and made the response anyway knowing (and obviously hoping) that it would get the attention.  He is not the victim here.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 14:58:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Creed, two distinctions (0.00 / 0)

Creed, I thought your original diary was unnecessarily inflammatory. And no, not because Steven was misquoted, or claimed to be.

Matt's original piece made two distinctions you failed to make clear in your retelling:

1. That what Steven was talking about was his response if Obama chooses Sam Nunn (which nobody serious thinks likely) as his VP. Look it's right here in Matt's title so nobody misses it. Compare that to yours, where a quick read of your title suggests wholesale rejection of the nominee.  
2. He wasn't talking about how he'd vote  as a delegate at the convention, but what he'd do in November, when his vote is unpledged and his very own:

If Barack Obama were to choose Sam Nunn as his running mate, the highest placed office on the ballot for which I would cast a vote would be U.S. Senate," said Garden State Equality Chairman Steven Goldstein, who will attend the Democratic National Convention in Denver next week.

Respectfully, my opinion is, we've got enough drama in New Jersey on an everyday basis. Let's not manufacture any more.  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 15:47:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Read the headline on PolitickerNJ.com (0.00 / 0)

Let's not throw the word "inflammatory" around.  I didn't name Steven in the title of the diary.  I put the link in the beginning of the diary and summarized it in the beginning of the diary.

There has been a great deal of concern about Clintonistas putting all sorts of conditions on their support.  Again, there is a difference between someone who has been selected as a delegate and what their obligations are versus rank and file people.

There is the ongoing concern that Hillary's (much less Bill's) support for the ticket is less than enthusiastic.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08...

As well as the Assembly Speaker's plea for unity:
http://www.politickernj.com/ma...

Or from a former Governor:
http://www.politickernj.com/ma...

Perhaps instead of attacking the people trying to put out the fire, you could do something about the arsonist.

By the way, aren't you running afoul of the rule you told me I "broke" with addressing "Cranbury Conservative" by his real name that he puts on his own blog????

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by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 16:18:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

sigh (1.67 / 3)

Steven Goldstein's shtick has become tiresome and distracting.  

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by: Anzana @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 04:12:48 AM UTC

I respect all your views (3.00 / 1)

To me, loyalty to a party is measured by factors like, are you raising money for it?  Are you helping to the turn out the vote for it?  Are you playing a role, indeed along with many others, in passing laws that reflect that party's values?  This is where the rubber hits the road.

In 2007, when control of the state legislature was at stake, GSE, as an organization or through individual members' contributions, raised more than $100,000 for Democratic candidates.  Yes, we raised money for pro-LGBT Republicans too - only a fraction, though, because the Republican Party as a whole, even on the state level, doesn't come close to the Democratic Party on LGBT issues.  

GSE is part of the state Democratic party's GOTV operation.  In fact, we're now planning our fall 2008 GOTV efforts with the statewide Obama campaign - Tricia Mueller is great to work with - as we aim to turn out as many LGBT and allied progressive voters as possible, with a focus on bringing new voters to the fold.

And not a day goes by where we don't get a call from some Demcratic candidate saying, listen, I hear you raised money or provided volunteers for so-and-so candidate, what about me?

The style may not be everyone's.  We're very aggressive.  And yes, we don't hestitate to speak out.  

But it's not about being a showhorse rather than a workhorse:  We do the work.  We put our actions where our months are.  

But again, I respect all your views and am very excited to be working with so many of you on the nuts-and-bolts operations that advance the party and the values for which it stands.    

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by: Steven Goldstein, Garden State Equality chair @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 11:27:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You endorsed Baroni, etc. n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 13:57:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Creed, you're right in that... (0.00 / 0)

Giarden State Equality endorsed 7 Republican legislative candidates in the 2007 cycle, compared to 70 Democratic legislative candidates.

Maybe this is a philosophical difference between us.   Some believe a progressive organization or its leaders should support only Democrats.

Others reject that.

I, for one, am in between:  I squarely recognize that the Democratic Party, both nationally and in New Jersey, is infinitely far better on progressive issues, including LGBT issues, than the Republican Party.

That's why behind the sound bites and the headlines, we work tirelessly for Democrats in fundraising and grassroots work.  

But on some occassions, where the Republicans are better, a bipartisan organization like Garden State Equality does support Republicans.  

Never, ever to support Republicans would make an advocacy organization a house organ of the Democratic Party, which it cannot be.

Yes, support the Democratic party an overwhelming majority of the time because it supports us an overwhelming majority of the time.

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by: Steven Goldstein, Garden State Equality chair @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 15:03:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Baroni is a progressive??? Who are you trying to kid? (0.00 / 0)

You can't go on one minute about how you "bleed blue" (which had a completely different meaning fifty years ago), but, for example, endorsed Baroni before the Democrats nominated anybody.  It wasn't making a choice between Singh and Baroni.  It was going along with CWA which felt that it gets "help" from Baroni.  But, has Baroni been helpful on any LGBT (I guess the four letters are back to being enough) issues in the Senate???

You made your response to Friedman to satisfy your desire for attention without any concern for anything else.  Again, notice how all the Republicans said they would still support McCain even with a pro-choice running mate.  Like I said, I doubt they are telling him that privately, but they are maintaining a facade of unity.  The American people are not going to support a party that seems divided and disorganized.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 16:51:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

come on creed, give it up already (0.00 / 0)

to each his own...or her own.

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by: vingopal @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 15:47:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

and can you blame him (0.00 / 0)

Seema Singh was an awful candidate haha

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by: vingopal @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 15:50:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ouch (0.00 / 0)

Bit by a yellow dog.  Must one be a yellow dog to be Democrat?  

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by: Wesleylake @ Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 18:58:10 PM UTC

stop the presses - Creed is right (0.00 / 0)

The problem is that because of his long history of antagonism towards Steven, marriage equality, and LGBT issues in general, he is without a doubt the worst possible messenger on this issue, because it is impossible to tell where his personal feelings about the above end and his practical position about the rights, roles, and responsibilities of a convention delegate begin.

Had this argument been made by someone equally as pragmatic, but also significantly more progressive on the issues in question like Thurman, it would have been far more compelling.

The fact of the matter is that everybody does have the right to vote for/against who they choose for the reasons that they choose, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they should be able to enjoy the once in a lifetime privilege of being a delegate to the Democratic National Convention.

Mind you, I do not believe that Steven should be decertified because he stated an opinion that he would not vote for Obama if Sam Nunn were his VP.

However, if Nunn had been named VP, I would have hoped that Steven and other delegates who felt the way that he did about these issues would have made their feelings public, and in a bold statement of opposition, would have willingly given up their credentials before decertification even became an issue, joining the ranks of the protesters outside the convention.

I don't think that the reporter in question was out of line when he asked Steven about Nunn and I don't think that Steven's opinion was out of line either.  While I would have voted for Obama if he had asked Hillary Clinton or John Edwards to be his VP, instead of Biden, I would have had more than some degree of pause about his judgment and his ability to lead our country during a time when strong leadership is something that is so essential.

The most disconcerting aspect of this week's convention is the degree to which Obama and the DNC have felt the need to mollify the Clintons and their insane supporters (only the ones who haven't been able to get over the fact that their inevitable candidate lost to the point that they are willing to put every important issue that they have stood for at risk by thinking that our country and world can survive another four years on the wrong track and supporting McCain over Obama), and despite everything that has been done to mollify them, I don't think that anybody can be certain that these people are not going to turn the convention into a circus.

It would be one thing if we were going into this convention without a presumptive nominee and the nomination was still being tested.  Under those circumstances, it would be more than understandable that there would be supporters of both Clinton and Obama in attendance who were so emotionally charged that they might feel at that moment that they would not be able to vote for their opposing candidate over McCain in November.

But this is simply not the case.  The race ended months ago and Clinton supporters have to get over themselves.  Hopefully, most of the ones who are in Denver this week have done so.  I know that Steven was never so doctrinaire of a Clinton supporter that this would have ever been an issue for him, so I hope that he has a great time this week as he works hard for an extremely important cause.

As far as Nunn goes, when you consider the fact that he was spoken about very seriously for a significant period of time during this process, it would have been nice to have heard more about this side of him sooner.  Had he just played a leadership role on "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", I might have given him a pass for having too narrow a view of how the military should operate rather than being homophobic.

A close friend of mine who is gay and served closetedly (is that a word?) in the Naval Reserves in the 90s, who is neither self-hating, nor sexist, does not believe that gay men or women, gay or otherwise, should be able to serve in the military.

My friend is a moderate whose positions are more conservative on fiscal and security issues and more liberal on social issues, and when it comes to the military, issues of efficiency take primacy over social justice.

While I don't agree with him on these issues, I know where he is coming from and would have thought that Nunn was coming from a similar place had I not heard about his strong opposition to a gay and lesbian-inclusive ENDA.  Thank you, Steven, for educating me on this issue.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:30:55 PM UTC