Corzine's E-mail Fiasco: A Profound Lack of Judgment?

He Can't release those e-mails (0.00 / 0)

His poor judgement in accepting those e-mails now prevents him from releasing them.

The other party in this e-mail debacle can very well lose her job if those e-mails show that " side" negotiations were taking place.

 

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by: firstamend07 @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:03:41 AM UTC

More innuendo (0.00 / 0)

Poor judgment in accepting e-mail?  How do you not accept e-mail?  

Should he have deleted the e-mails and then called Katz?  Then there would be nothing but innuendo to smear Corzine with.

If the e-mails demonstrate that there were side negotiations then I will say Corzine was wrong.  But both Corzine and Katz say there were not, and the judge has not indicated one way or the other.

Of course, we now live in a country where innuendo equals guilt.

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by: huntsu @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:15:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

E-mail Fiasco (0.00 / 0)

Of course, Governor Corzine has the right to pursue further litigation in court to prevent the release of the emails.  You are missing the point.  As Judge Innes wrote in his decision, "The public has a right to know whether the relationship between the governor and Ms. Katz had any improper influence on the governor's paramount obligation to serve the interest of the citizens of New Jersey first."  When the Governor and the head of one of the State's most powerful unions are exchanging e-mails (not simply the Governor accepting emails), the public has a right to know whether improper conduct (involving the public's business) has occurred.  If the Governor's worry is salacious emails making their way into the public domain, there are numerous ways to deal with this, including using appropriate legal channels.  

Michael M. Shapiro
www.TheAlternativePress.com

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by: mikeshapiro @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:25:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Come now... (0.00 / 0)

You cannot possibly defend this. Corzine says publicly and argues in court that the emails are private communications and are not subject to open records requests, he specifically states that no contracts negotiations took place via email.
Katz comes out in the same court and specifically argues that confidential contract negotiations took place, and that's why the emails are protected.
These arguments are diametrically opposed.
I think that's a little more than innuendo, somebody is lying, I'm not sure how you spin it any other way beyond Clintonesque definitions of 'negotiations'.

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:33:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

True Colors (0.00 / 0)

I'm not sure how you spin it any other way beyond Clintonesque definitions of 'negotiations'.

After seven-plus years of lies about everything from who met with Dick Cheney to whether Saddam Hussein posed a threat, you have to go back to 1998 to attack Bill Clinton's definition of sex?

Just weeks after Scott McClellan's book saying that Cheney intentionally lied and hid facts under court order regarding Valerie Plame, and you have to go back to Bill Clinton's definition of is?

Really, it says a lot about how you view the world and Democratic/progressive politics.

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by: huntsu @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 14:19:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Don't get me wrong... (0.00 / 0)

lying is lying. I don't condone Bush/Cheney/Christie or anyone else's lying.
It's just that Corzine got around his lying by relying on the definition of 'negotiations', Clinton was the only one I could think of who used a similar tactic. (the other guys used other excuses)
 

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 14:54:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

WjcW You hit it on the head! (0.00 / 0)

Your argument is exactly what happened and what is happening.

Corzine was told by his cracker jack negotiating team that under no circumstances can he have any contact with Katz while negotiations were taking place.

Corzine should have never opened up the e-mails. It was not poor judgement, it was horrible judgement.

He did nothing illegal, he just did something stupid.

He has compounded the problem by lying and covering it up.

You will find that Katz was telling the truth.  

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by: firstamend07 @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 20:20:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

how not to accept e-mail (4.00 / 1)

Actually, it turns out the Bush Administration refused to open an e-mail from the EPA because they knew it would have advice they didn't want to hear.

Okay, so it's off topic, but it's an amazing story.


Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

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by: Hopeful @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 15:30:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Come on ... (4.00 / 1)

Seriously, Mike, why should Corzine turn over personal e-mails between himself and his former girlfriend?  Both he and Katz say that no business was discussed in these communications, and no government computers were used.

And there is absolutely zero evidence they are lying.  The judge has seen the e-mails, and has not said that they are germane to any budget talks or contract negotiations.  No one else has seen them.  

So why, outside of perceptions and political expediency, should a person give up their right to communicate privately with their (ex) loved ones just to avoid looking bad?

Is this the standard we live in now?  We give up our civil rights when it becomes hard or embarrassing?  

As for whether there was a court order, so what?  Corzine is still a citizen and has the right to appeal the court case.  Should he give up the right of appeal for appearances sake?  So far you are asking Corzine to give up privacy and the right to his day in court.  You want to take away habeus corpus next?  

I fully understand Corzine giving up using personal e-mail while he is governor if everything he sends or receives will be discoverable even if it neither relates to nor uses government resources.  He should not stop using state e-mail, but giving up personal e-mail protects him from the prying eyes of the prurient and malicious.  

When we start accepting that the accusation of impropriety is the same as impropriety we have become Soviet Russia where anyone can be convicted by implication.

We're better than that.

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by: huntsu @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:12:53 AM UTC

Nope. (0.00 / 0)

Katz claiimed in court that contract negotiations were conducted and those negotiations are confidential.
It was only when her union superiors came back informing the court that Katz had no authority to negotiate officially on behalf of the union did her argument evaporate.

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:37:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Found the link... (0.00 / 0)

http://www.nj.com/news/index.s...

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:47:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dunno (0.00 / 0)

We'll see when they are released.  Reading the article you linked to below I am not sure I agree with your expansive reading of what she said.

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by: huntsu @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 14:21:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"they were part of collective bargaining" (0.00 / 0)

That is her claim which doesn't do anything to help the case.  It should be remembered that while the Sunshine Law allows a public body to close a meeting while discussing collective bargaining the minutes have to be released once the contract is signed.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 14:49:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

unintended consequences (0.00 / 0)

Where this really has the potential to create problems is the future of "executive privilege."  If a court rules that emails between an elected official and a civilian aren't privileged, then that opens all sorts of doors for the future.  If the emails are "monumentally boring," then it is better to release them now and be done with it.

Katz' intervention has been counter-productive (surprise, surprise!).  Her claim that the emails should be kept secret because they involved negotiations directly contradicted the Governor's statement that they didn't.  She and Rev. Wright need to find a support group.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 14:46:55 PM UTC