0 users logged on

Tips: BlueJerseyDotCom (AIM) |

Our Democratic Congress: First legalized torture, now legalized spying on innocent Americans

by: Hopeful

Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 09:29:37 PM EDT

One of the good things about growing older is that we have the chance to learn from our mistakes. I wonder if Democrats in Congress will ever learn how George W. Bush operates. I'd like to think Senators Lautenberg and Menendez learned something from their vote for the Military Commissions Act, but as far as I can tell, they and their colleagues in Congress sit idly by while telecom immunity is pushed through by Republicans. It's the same story all over again. As for what pardoning illegal acts and approving courts with pre-determined outcomes gets us, I recommend this remarkable interview with George W. Bush:

Look at how Menendez and Lautenberg -- yes, and Rob Andrews and all six Republicans -- let Bush say Congress approved his crimes. As Glen Greenwald notes, Republicans are already boasting they won on telecom immunity. Pathetic, and our Democrats in New Jersey, however they officially vote, let it happen again and again.

As Bush says, "We passed a Law." Again, and again.

Hopeful :: Our Democratic Congress: First legalized torture, now legalized spying on innocent Americans

Tags: torture, military commissions act, telecom immunity, FISA, George W. Bush, Rob Andrews, Bob Menendez, Frank Lautenberg, (All Tags)

Print Friendly View

Send As Email

Our Democratic Congress: First legalized torture, now legalized spying on innocent Americans | 17 comments

Getting Elected Trumps a Moral Compass (4.00 / 2)

I don't believe Mendendez condones torture, but he voted for it. My guess is that somebody told him Kean would accuse him of coddling terrorists and that might turn the election.
I cant figure out another reason for him to have done such a thing.
The politicians show no moral fiber when they vote like this, but the public is actually at the root of it...because they are the ones who actually allow such strategies to pay off.

by: nsodano @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 03:21:05 AM UTC

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

and I suppose I should clarify (0.00 / 0)

The Military Commissions Act was passed by the previous Congress, which was controlled by Republicans, much like the Congress that authorized the Iraq war.

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

by: Hopeful @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 03:51:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

But but but (3.00 / 1)

But but but Frank Lautenberg is PROGRESSIVE!!!

I'm curious to see how the Lautenberg purity trolls left over from the primary will react to this- that is, unless they're too busy continuing to demonize Rob Andrews.

by: Mr. Steakhouse @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 04:22:40 AM UTC

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

Truth in Blogging (4.00 / 1)

With respect to the "Lautenberg purity trolls", I'm not sure anyone ever claimed that Lautenberg would be a progressive's first choice. I would have voted for Holt, given the choice. Lautenberg was simply more progressive than Andrews.

One does have to wonder about Andrews' vote today. It's the correct vote but doesn't really square with many of his previous votes. Could it be that he's now voting his conscience since he's not running for reelection this fall?

-pb

by: princetonblue @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 19:50:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

Get your facts straight Princetonblue (0.00 / 0)

Rob Andrews on FISA 2006:

http://www.house.gov/list/hear...

by: Bill Caruso @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 19:57:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

My facts are fine, but thanks for the concern. (4.00 / 1)

My belief is that a politician who supports the flag-burning amendment and the military commissions act would also be inclined to support today's bill as they are all relatively conservative positions. It's good to learn of Andrews 2006 vote, but that makes Andrews position all the more interesting.

-pb

by: princetonblue @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 22:01:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Give me a break (0.00 / 0)

The primary's over. It's tortured logic to question Rob's motives for a good vote. Stop beating a dead horse.

by: Scott Shields @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 20:45:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

Look who started it!! (4.00 / 1)

Hey,

I wasn't the one who brought up the primary. Why don't you respond to Mr. Steakhouse, who felt the need to snark at the Lautenberg supporters. I thought we were past the primary too.

-pb

by: princetonblue @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 21:55:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

bob (0.00 / 0)

I called Menendez' office and his staff said he was going to vote against.

by: Capt. Jean-Luc Pikachu @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 06:09:48 AM UTC

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

Steny Hoyer (4.00 / 1)

They need to get rid of Steny Hoyer. He's like a Republican not so-secret agent.

Leadership could have prevented this bill from even being voted on this year. At least, they could have forced a discharge petition.

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 10:48:39 AM UTC

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

Rush Holt (0.00 / 0)

at TPM yesterday:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme...

No comment.

by: SmartyJones @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 12:14:27 PM UTC

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

Rush Holt II (0.00 / 0)

Live blogging from FDL:

Holt: Because we live in a dangerous world, we must redefine the 4th Amendment -- this was a flawed argument from the Bush/Cheney Administration. It is a fishing expedition approach to intel collections -- the court provisions are weak and narrowly defined. The judges hands are tied int his process -- it is not strong review. This bill is flawed.

Yeah!

by: SmartyJones @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 16:37:04 PM UTC

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

Hopeful needs a clue (0.00 / 0)

Hopeful,
how did Rob Andrews vote on FISA?

Go look it up and then tell me how you came to your conclusion.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/200...

by: Bill Caruso @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 18:01:52 PM UTC

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

umm, follow the link (0.00 / 0)

I am pleased Andrews voted that way on FISA today.

The link refers to the vote for the Military Commissions Act, as does the video where Bush is talking.

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

by: Hopeful @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 19:04:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

I followed the link (4.00 / 3)

to a piece of legislation voted on almost 2 years ago for which much criticism has been offered by folks here against Menendez, Lautenberg and Andrews between then and now.

Let's give credit where and when it is due in equal proportion to the criticism dished out otherwise we run the risk that the opinions offered here will be worth less than the lock on Juan's bike.

by: Bill Caruso @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 19:22:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

by: you @ soon

To post this comment click here:

Otherwise click cancel.

MCA, Rob, Bob, and Frank (4.00 / 2)

I think what Hopeful is trying to do is less about calling out Rob than it is about being fair to Menendez and Lautenberg in not singling them out when others voted the same way.

Still, Bill, I'm giving you a 4 for the bike lock reference. That was just awesome.

by: Scott Shields @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 20:52:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]