It's time for Plan B

constitutional convention (0.00 / 0)

what exactly is that?

anyone around for the last one?  any hope for one in the future?  

activist for hire.

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by: Jay Lassiter @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 13:23:56 PM UTC

why not do it ourselves? (0.00 / 0)

New Jersey for Democracy and several other progressive organizations did a fantastic job at creating a mock Iowa-style caucus several months ago.

If these same organizations are open to the idea of a constitutional convention  and could reach out to conservative organizations who are also supportive of this concept, I think that enough people could be brought together for a couple of days  and/or nights in May or June (hopefully there will be a lull in Presidential politics by then) to create an image of what a constitutional convention could look like and produce.

I think that involving conservatives in this process is essential, because any constitutional convention that would actually occur would most likely involve people from all parts of the political spectrum.

It would be ideal if this could happen and produce something tangible before July 1 so that it could possibly provide a lens by which Corzine, the Senate, and the Assembly approach the crafting of our state's next budget, but I understand if that is next to impossible.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 14:33:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

fair enough (0.00 / 0)

but it doesn't exactly answer the question.  for those of us who don't remember the last one, what exactly is a constitutional constitution?

activist for hire.

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by: Jay Lassiter @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 15:07:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Constitutional Convention (3.50 / 2)

The last one in NJ created the 1947 Constitution that we currently have.

A question goes on the ballot whether the people want to have a convention which would have broad or limited powers to recommend amendments to the state constitution.  Delegates can be selected at the same time as the question or at some later point.  The delegates meet and then put questions on the ballot for the people to vote.

The Coalition for the Public Good and its Citizens' Assemblies have brought a bunch of stakeholders together (in essence a mock constitutional convention) and made recommendations for changes in our public finance system.  We should now go ahead with the real thing.  A debating society is not the answer.

Our public finance system has been studied and studied and studied and studied and....

While I continue to hope that our legislators will start doing the job for which they are being paid, I have been and continue to be a strong supporter of a constitutional convention.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 18:59:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Budget Cuts First (4.00 / 1)

I think that the only way to start this process is to announce the budget cuts first. Create pain and then come along and give some relief.

I think Corzine will announce a wage freeze on all current state worker contracts. A 3% increase is due in July and he will void it. He will also announce a 50% cutback on your Property tax rebate checks. This will divert the argument and then people will start looking at compromises.

The compromises are there. Raise the gas tax a little , sell the lottery, raise tolls a little.

He tried but failed on this plan. Time ot move on.  

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by: firstamend07 @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 14:12:53 PM UTC

You are right. (0.00 / 0)

The items that were ignored during the special session need to come back.

The rebates are unsustainable without doing something.

Debt service payments will go down by almost half in ten years if we do nothing.  But, the $960 million the Governor was hoping to save would help the deficit now.

The other big problem is how to come up with $3 billion for the MOM tunnel.  That could have gone on the ballot last November and probably would have passed.  But, the money is needed by October (the start of fiscal year 2009).  I believe this was a big reason for the push now for monetization.

If you add a dime to the gas tax and double the Parkway and Turnpike tolls, you can generate $5 billion for transportation improvements, do the widening and cut fares on NJ Transit by a third.  Putting windmills on the roads may help dramatically reduce electric bills for state government as well as schools, counties and municipalities which would be a property tax help.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 19:05:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

MOM and tunnel are separate issues (0.00 / 0)

The tunnel and MOM are not related. The tunnel is for the Northeast Corridor line. MOM, on the other hand, remains a disputed line, split along counties.

Let's not conflate the two.

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by: Hank Kalet @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 04:29:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

my bad. I meant the tunnel. n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: Creed Pogue @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 06:18:13 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Cutting State Wages & Pensions (4.00 / 2)

Other than the fact that it would cripple the state short term and long term, there's nothing wrong with cutting state wages & pensions.   Taxpayers won't care.   But who are you going to hire to run the state?

NJ Taxpayers are very happy to have state workers work for less.  But the reality is that you won't find the labor.  In my little part of state government, we can't find qualified people for open positions at current pay.  The fiction is that state workers are getting rich.   The reality is that many of my colleagues in professional positions are living paycheck to paycheck.

You don't get great people at the wages being offered.  The result is that important things just don't get done.  

Best,
pb

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by: princetonblue @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 22:27:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You had some ideas though... (0.00 / 0)

Wasn't it your position that we just are too damn inefficient with our state employees. I thought I remember you posting the current level of componsation can be justified but, we need to cut down on the amount of people with smarter organization. Do you still think there are economies to be realized?

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 23:51:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Current State employees not the problem (0.00 / 0)

Even a 20% cutback in the workforce would be no more than a symbolic gesture when you are talking about the kind of money Corzine needs.

Corzine is right.The State has enough money to run what it needs to run at the current revenue it takes in . It even has enough to give back money in property tax rebates.

It will only take a drastic sell off of something to pay the last ten years worth of debt. Obvioulsly the tunpike idea is not the answer.

What does a gambler do when he owes a lost bet. He sells his possessions.

What Corzine must understand is that he can't do this all at once. He also must commit to putting any money he attains from the sale of state assets into paying down the debt.

Ok, what can we sell?

Codey is right, put the Lottery up for sale.

Sell off some state owned property . as an example, there is a prison in Camden that is sitting on valuable waterfront land, sell it.  

There are some smart people on this site, what else can we sell or lease?

Maybe one road? How about the A.C .expressway?  

Any ideas?  

 

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by: firstamend07 @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 15:03:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Efficiencies, yes. (0.00 / 0)

The problem is you can't get those efficiencies unless you can hire people with the education and vision to implement those plans.  By always concentrating on cutting wages/pensions instead of how do we provide services more efficiently, the state is (usually) penny-wise, pound foolish.

In my opinion, the state should commit itself to a freeze (or reduction) in the number of state employees, but pay what it needs to pay to get those employees to do their jobs most efficiently.

For example, my friends out in Silicon Valley are often running quite large companies with minimal personnel.  The reason they can do that is because they hire very bright people (by paying a very good salary), and those people come up with plans that only need a minimal number of employees.  One can't implement the same plan in a state government, but one can move in that direction.  

-pb

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by: princetonblue @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 16:25:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Return to progressive taxation first. (4.00 / 2)

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 03:06:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Rollback to Florio (4.00 / 1)

It is my belief that most of our state's problems go back to Christie Whitman's victory over Jim Florio in 1993.  I would be curious how close to a budget solution we would be if we simply rolled everything back to the way that they were before he left office.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 14:36:37 PM UTC

Do you mean Jims taxes ? (4.00 / 1)

I would support progressive taxation

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 03:07:44 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I mean everything (4.00 / 2)

Take his last budget and taxation schedules, account for inflation, and let me know where we stand at that point in time.

I would also advocate for retroactive taxation on individuals and companies that benefitted from the Whitman tax cuts at the expense of our state's fiscal well-being.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 04:40:45 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Roll back pensions? (1.00 / 1)

Whitman gave the state workers a big pension increase while at the same time refused to fund the pension.

Are you suggesting that the 9% pension increase granted at that time be rolled back?

The reality is that state government workers and the teachers in this State are the big expense.

Are they worth all this Pain?

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by: firstamend07 @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 15:03:27 PM UTC

maybe on both counts (0.00 / 0)

They are definitely worth all this pain, but they have to share it as well.

All I know is that the Florio approach was vilified at the time, but I think our current fiscal crisis has proved that it was the correct approach and as good of a start as any.

I think that there is a very good chance that if Jon Corzine is unable to pass his asset monetization plan, he will not run for re-election next year.

Dick Codey is the likely heir to Corzine's throne, especially if Corzine gets a golden parachute from a Hillary Clinton Presidential administration.

I don't know what Codey's answers to these problems are, but if they aren't any better than Corzine's, I would love to draft Jim Florio to run against Codey and give himself one last chance at political redemption and our state one last chance at fiscal recovery.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 17:48:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Corzine Can Only Succeed if He Cooses To Lead (0.00 / 0)

That means he has to inspire the people of NJ with a real Vision; not just a powerpoint presentation with numbers "that work".

The people of this state know they are being shafted by "the system" in many ways....they know that there is rampant legalized bribery and legalized corruption.   They might not be able to "prove" it but they know it in their gut.

Unless Jon Corzine addresses, head on, the question of confidence in the fairness and integrity of our governance at the state, county AND local levels.....he will continue to be a punching bag from Republicans on one side and machine Democrats on the other.

Jon Corzine STILL has the possiblity of going way over the heads of his political enemies, and reaching out directly to the PEOPLE of NJ with a transformational plan to do more than just resolve NJ's "financial woes"....but the actual structural defects that brought us to this place!

The people of NJ, and that includes the government employees would be willing to make great collective sacrifices IF they truly believed that those sacrifices were fair and that the fat cats who've been living high off the hog at the expense of the unconnected rank and file citizens would have their legalized scamming ways put to to complete end.

My sense is that Jon Corzine is an honest mensch; but sadly that's good enough in this case.  

He needs to become a kick ass GOVERNOR who is willing to take on the entrenched parasites who have been sucking away at the wealth of this great state for so many years that they feel absolutely entitled to do so in perpetuity.

The pay to play system of legalized bribery must be eliminated in all of its permutations and replaced with public financing of campaigns.    Further, violations of the public trust must be punished far more diligently and severely....these are "smart" people who would be deterred if they understood that the consequences of robbing the public til would be severe.

Plan "B" needs to be a wholistic approach or it will just amount to more of the same unsustainable rot in a prettier package.

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by: Nick Lento @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 18:39:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

That should read "...Chooses to Lead..." sorry for the typo n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: Nick Lento @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 18:43:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. (0.00 / 0)

Public financing is a good thing, but it won't do anything to solve this budget crisis.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 19:07:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Creed, I think thats a really valid point (4.00 / 2)

Corzine has taken his trusty old Goldman Sachs hammer and is looking for nails.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 03:04:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Actually, I Did Use The Word "Wholistic", Implying... (0.00 / 0)

...that a full spectrum of "revenue enhancements" are called for.  

Tolls increasing should be part of that package (the rationale that half the increase is paid by out of state drivers is reasonable....and, proportionaltely, our tolls are lower than neighboring states).

Let's increase the gasoline tax by 10 cents per gallon (still keeping us cheaper than NY) and use 3 cents of that to provide some financial incentives to buyers of fuel efficient vehicles.

The idea of some progressive income tax hikes isn't such a terrible thing...the rich can afford to give back some of what they've gained in recent years.  

There's no doubt that there's a myriad of bits and pieces that can be cobbled together to restore the state's finances in a way that spreads the pain without hurting the  most vulnerable......and some kind of minimal restraint on increases and/or givebacks by state workers would be in order given that the private sector is also "belt tightening".

Even with cutbacks and improved efficiencies; we can afford the Family Leave bill that's now on the table....as its administrative costs are negligible and it's a self funding insurance program.

My sense is that the underlying reason that NJ got into this mess in the first place is the cumulative effects of a system that is inherently corrupted by "contributions" from monied interests.  

We're paying wayyyyy too much in debt service; there are perverse incentives from the financial community to keep the state paying interest on tax free bonds in perpetuity.  We should aim for/commit to being debt free, even if it takes 25 years.

There are reasons we got into this hole....and many, if not most, of them have to do with the cumulative effects of dirty money driving the process.

Any solution that doesn't take into account the need for strong ethics reforms and campaign finance reforms and a passage of the Party Democracy Act won't be substantively credible; and it won't be politically viable.

Cleaning up the pay to play system can only reduce the cost of government and can only force the free enterprise system to operate more efficiently.   When "the fix" is in; the cost of everything goes up to feed the leeches.

Doing things on the up and up is actually CHEAPER than allowing the "good old boys" network to keep on "getting their piece of the action".

Everyone in state, county and local government will be more productive if/when they actually feel that their jobs are contingent on how well they actually DO their jobs as opposed to how well they suck up to political hacks and bosses.

Politics doesn't have to be a dirty sleazy business.

If our governor were to truly lead NJ out of this morass  it would set a great example for the whole nation and establish Jon Corzine as a heroic national figure.   He wold be re-elected in a landslide and bring along lots of new progressives into the statehouse with him.

Bottom line: This crisis truly is an opportunity!

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by: Nick Lento @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:26:22 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Givebacks (0.00 / 0)

Dear Nick,

I think you need to realize that state workers have already "given back" to the state in the last two contracts that were negotiated.  

If you want to look for givebacks, take a look at the local K-12 teachers.  They have received much more in salary increases and made fewer concessions over the past 8 years.

I don't think one wants to go down this path, but if you do, don't first pick on the people who have already given back.

Best,
pb  

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by: princetonblue @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 16:29:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I Take Your Point... (0.00 / 0)

What you said above....

In my opinion, the state should commit itself to a freeze (or reduction) in the number of state employees, but pay what it needs to pay to get those employees to do their jobs most efficiently.

For example, my friends out in Silicon Valley are often running quite large companies with minimal personnel.  The reason they can do that is because they hire very bright people (by paying a very good salary), and those people come up with plans that only need a minimal number of employees.  One can't implement the same plan in a state government, but one can move in that direction.

 

...makes sense; but it too could be seen as a "cut" from the perspective of the folks who might not be the most talented competent and hard working and would find themselves making less money, or jobless, if/when we moved "in that direction".

No doubt that fewer people working smarter and a bit harder could run things more efficiently.  

Anyone who's ever worked for a large organization knows that there's lots of "dead wood"  and that, often, the folks in management aren't the hardest working/most competent available; but the best players at the game of "office politics" or the most connected.  

When there's lots of money floating around organizations can sort of "get by" carrying this kind of bloat.....but when time are lean it becomes unsustainable.

The key to this whole set of issues imho is to come up with a plan that cost everyone something; but that hurts no one in any extreme manner....and that is put forth in the context of cleaning up the whole system.....along with positive policy measures like paid family leave, and incentives for high mpg vehicles and for solar, and extensive ethics/finance reforms etc.

I think that just about the whole state would rally around a transformative agenda and an inspired vision.  

Whether Corzine is willing or able to do this remains to be seen.

PS
I would love to live in a NJ where everyone in the state enjoyed the kind of security and benefits package that state employees earn; the ultimate answer is to bring everyone UP to that level, not to take away the fruits of collective bargaining.

 

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by: Nick Lento @ Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 00:09:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Roll Back Pensions (0.00 / 0)

The actual reality is that you are wrong. All State Departments -  including buildings, workers and vehicles account for less than 20% of the budget.    
   The vast part of the budget goes to Municipal Aid and to Grants...like a grant that funds County Health Departments.
   Your anti-worker comments sound like they belong on Red Jersey with Bret Schundler's rhetoric

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by: nsodano @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 05:27:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think you misread... (4.00 / 1)

First Amendments intentions... he is probably the most pro-worker poster on the board.

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 14:51:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

He /She did misread (0.00 / 0)

Remember , before yo ucna fix something you must find out what is broken.

This problem is all about debt. So how can we pay off debt realisticly.  

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by: firstamend07 @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 15:07:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Debt (0.00 / 0)

Debt is only a part of the "problem."  Most of the TTF debt has just been refinanced, so refinancing it again is not going to work out.

As revealed by the Treasury spokesman in today's Courier-Post the new debt that Corzine wants will more than replace the debt that would be "paid off."

In ten years according to the Governor's presentation, debt service would go down by almost half.

Because of a complete lack of will regarding government streamlining or broad-based taxation, we wind up here.

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by: Creed Pogue @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 22:16:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Did Not Misread (0.00 / 0)

FirstAmdend07 wrote:
" The reality is that state government workers and the teachers in this State are the big expense.   Are they worth all this Pain?"

I responded that State Workers and the infrastructure supporting them  account for <20% of the budget.  You cant count that as the "BIG" expense.

The vast part of the budget goes to "Aid" and "Grants"...and where does that go? mostly back to counties and municipalities.

Go look there for your "stream lining".
Nick

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by: nsodano @ Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:11:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You did misread (0.00 / 0)

My whole comment was about the expense , now and in the future, of the pension plan for state workers and teachers.

Much of our debt comes from the fact that for years the State did not pay into the plan.

This is not the fault of the state workers or teachers but the public will now deciding if those plans can or should be rolled back.

State workers and teachers might be used as scapegoats.  

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by: firstamend07 @ Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 14:31:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's a simple as (4.00 / 2)

Class warfare and soaking the rich. They always threaten to leave, but never do.
Since the successful destruction of the last governor who balanced the budget, politicians quake in fear of the precursor to Swift Boat Veterans, Hands Across New Jersey. It's time for the free ride rich right wing to pay its fair share. Anyone who thinks the Whitman and Forbes estates should be taxed as farms must be a Republican or on dope.  

Restore democracy and the Constitution for which it stands.

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by: The Wizard @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 19:40:34 PM UTC

Thats the glory of progressive taxation (4.00 / 1)

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

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by: FogerRox @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 03:05:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

We are currently engaged in a Class War (0.00 / 0)

We are currently engaged in a Class War that was started by the rich. They declared war on anyone who wasn't in their class, and they are winning.

In my opinion, one of the major problems is our tax system. It gives breaks to the wealthy and heavily taxes middle and lower income people. Corzine will never look at a progressive income tax because he represents the class that benefits off the current tax system.

Check out David Cay Johnson's new book "Free Lunch". I have yet to read it, but I heard him on Bill Moyers and Democracy Now! He gives concrete examples of how the wealthy use the tax system to enrich themselves on the backs of working people and use public subsidies for their own benefit.

Now my friends, I am opposed to the system of society in which we live today, not because I lack the natural equipment to do for myself but because I am not satisfied to make myself comfortable knowing that there are thousands of my fellow men who suffer

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by: evdebs @ Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 21:22:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Reverting back to pre-n/55 would have a big impact. n/t (4.00 / 1)

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by: Creed Pogue @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 23:04:26 PM UTC

Convention (0.00 / 0)

The convention is the only way. The Legislature has proven it cannot be trusted -- and I am talking about members from both parties -- to fix this. And Corzine has failed to lead, letting Democratic legislators stymie the short list of real reforms he's gotten behind.

The governor is the nation's most powerful executive, armed with the ability to order some reforms and to carve up legislation, excising what he dislikes. He's failed to use them on issues that matter and, in the process, he's ceded too much of the agenda-setting to legislators.

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by: Hank Kalet @ Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 04:36:07 AM UTC