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Will the real John Edwards please stand up?

by: MonmouthMusings

Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 02:50:40 AM EST



I'm writing this post because I have received a lot of heat in the last 3 days, most of them from Edwards' supporters and a lot of Kucinich supporters from NJ. Easily over a dozen harsh emails in the last 48 hours....As Congressman Kucinich's national campaign coordinator and manager for the past year, I have constantly heard from a lot of my friends in New Jersey, good people and good friends, that Dennis is taking away votes from Edwards and Obama, that he is a spoiler - I have heard from numerous Edwards supporters, a lot of them my friends from the New Jersey DFA & PDA, that they could never forgive Dennis for backing Edwards in 2004 over Howard Dean, arguing that is what pushed Dean into 3rd place in Iowa and Dean in 2nd place.
MonmouthMusings :: Will the real John Edwards please stand up?
Yet these individuals who will not forgive Dennis from his 2004 endorsement have no problems at all forgiving John Edwards for his vote to authorize force in Iraq, being a proud co-sponsor of the bill and pushing the continuance of the war all the way up to the end of 2006. It is really remarkable how many New Jersey activists I spoke to 2007, who said they can't support Kucinich because of what he did 2004. Others said they couldn't support him based on his electability. That even though they agreed on his platform, electability was their primary issue, not getting the issues that Dennis Kucinich represents into the party debate (marriaqe equality, ending NAFTA/WTO, ending the war in Iraq, repealing the Patriot Act etc.) By the way, for those who argue Edwards is the only candidate that is electabile in the general election, every poll showed John Edwards trailing by 10 to 20 points, even a University of North Carolina Poll down by 20+ points in his 2004 re-election to the senate.

He was not going to be re-elected and hence why the Republicans took Edwards seat by more than 160,000 votes. Edwards on the ballot in North Carolina did not even help him in 2004 - Kerry/Edwards lost North Carolina by more than 12 points and lost Edwards' birth state of South Carolina by more than 17 points. His name on the ballot didn't even help his slate in North Carolina whom all lost local seats.

Looking at Iowa, Nevada, South Carolina and New Hampshire - Obama won a strong number of votes from Independents and Republicans. His election can change the image of America forever. Despite his faults, which are many, he's not Washington politician - he had the judgment to oppose the war in Iraq and predicted what would happen after we entered. He doesen't flip flop on the issues and he's principles with judgement. His support from independents and his ability to get things done will be big. Edwards continuing to run in this race after only getting 3% in Nevada and 17%, a last place showing (aside from Sen. Gravel), in his birth state was not too hot.

Polls show he is at around 5% to 6% in New Jersey. He only helps Hillary Clinton in New Jersey. If Edwards' wasn't in the NJ race, his support would go to Obama.... The danger he presents is the same argument folks used to make to me about Dennis Kucinich. This is a 2 person race in New Jersey and a vote for John Edwards is a vote for Hillary Clinton. The possibility of Clinton as the nominee is scary and I think Edwards supporters understand that.

Don't get me wrong, had John Edwards' gotten the support and became the nominee, I would have been excited to volunteer for him - It is a different ballgame now with 7 days left. John Edwards will not get more than 5% or 6% in New Jersey - It will be a race between Obama and Clinton. John Edwards, at least in New Jersey (not talking about the other states even though the polls there don't show much better), will be a spoiler helping Hillary Clinton.

I'm proudly going to vote for Barack Obama because he represents authenticity and judgement...Something that John Edwards simply does not represent. I'd like to point out below, the Edwards' record....a record that progressives want to turn the other cheek to.

THE JOHN EDWARDS RECORD

PATRIOT Act ok, if watchdogs protect civil liberties. (May 2003)

Voted for the Bankruptcy Reform Act

Worked on a Hedge Fund all the way up to 2006 before he flipped his position

Voted to Authorize the war in Iraq and fully supported it in 2004, 2005 and 2006 - Did not called for an end to the war until 2006 when he decided to run for president

Strongly supports death penalty (2004)

Opposes legalization of marijuana despite admitting to have often smoked it as a youth (2007)

Opposes lowering drinking age to 18 (2007)

Voted YES on Bush Administration Energy Policy (2003)

Voted for China Trade

Voted and continues to support NAFTA and the WTO

Co-Sponsor of the bill to authorize force in Iraq and Patriot Act - said in his speech how much he trusts George W. Bush and why he was proud to be a co-sponsor on the bill with Rick Santorum.

Rated 37% by the LCV, indicating a mixed record on environment. (Dec 2003)

The Israelis do not have a partner for peace right now. (Oct 2004)  ---(What does he think the US is)

Voted for China trade, but Bush has not enforced obligations. (Nov 2007)  

Right to bear arms protected by Second Amendment (Mar 2004)

Guns are about independence-don't mess with that. (Oct 2003)

Med-mal cases are about accountability for mistakes.
Cap on damages for personal injuries is discriminatory.

Healthcare Coverage only for children or else we are going towards socialism (Mar 2004)

Voted NO on cutting nuclear weapons below START levels. (May 1999)

Lawyers help people, lawmakers help many people. (Dec 2003)

Proud Member of Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). (Nov 2007)

Don't negotiate with Arafat, but build trust with envoy. (Jan 2004)

40,000 troops out by 2009, but no pledge for all out by 2013. (Sep 2007)

No funding for the surge, but continue funding the troops. (Feb 2007)

Supporting Iraq war OK, but how war was conducted not OK. (Feb 2004)

Irresponsible to not fund troops; also to fund Halliburton. (Sep 2003)

Problems in Iraq are because Bush has not led. (Sep 2003)

I refuse to apologize for my vote in Iraq. It was the right thing to do and I am convinced of it. Good leaders don't second-guess themselves 2 years after a vote (2004)

On voting for Iraq War: "I was wrong". (Nov 2005)

Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)

Voted YES on allowing all necessary force in Kosovo. (May 1999)

Voted YES on authorizing air strikes in Kosovo. (Mar 1999)

---

I wish progressives would look at John Edwards' record and why he chose to position himself the way he did in 2008. He didn't do it because he changed all of his opinions on every issue. He did it because it was politically convenient.

I am proud to support Senator Obama, and as Congressman Kucinich's former National Campaign Coordinator, while I urge other Kucinich supporters to cast their vote for Barack Obama, I hope John Edwards' supporters in New Jersey will look at the facts and take a second look at Barack Obama and the stakes of this election on February 5th.

I think the facts speak for themself.

--

Vin Gopal
Former National Campaign Mgr.
Kucinich for President

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Edwards' record, policies (4.00 / 2)
As a Kucinich supporter, you have every right to choose whomever you want now to endorse, though I think that Kucinich's beliefs and values are best represented in Edwards' agenda rather than Obama's. And I don't think doing a hatchet job on Edwards helps to encourage anyone to join the Obama campaign; the personal attacks should be left to the Republicans.

Factually speaking, Edwards consistently posts the best numbers against the Republicans in the general election polls; in terms of downticket races, he would be the strongest Democratic to have at the top of the ticket and would pull in numbers for congressional and local races that, in my estimation, Clinton and Obama simply couldn't do.

Regarding his record, I think a little context is necessary, since Edwards is from a red state and since his vote to authorize the war in Iraq has since been admitted as a mistake. I notice that you didn't post Edwards' work on the patient's bill of rights, his strong environmental record, his support for a pay raise for military servicemen and women, his 100% NARAL voting record, his support of adding sexual orientation to hate crimes, or his Shareholder and Worker Bill of Rights. For Kucinich supporters, there simply isn't a stronger pro-union voice than Edwards now remaining in the race; Edwards and Kucinich have walked dozens, if not hundreds, of picket lines, and Kucinich supporters should see the continuation of their voice in Edwards.

Edwards is down by 22 delegates right now to Clinton, and is closer to her in delegates than McCain is to Romney. His top one day of fundraising occurred last week, with online donations on Thursday, and his campaign has the money and resources needed to do well post-Feb. 5th.

Just because the N.J. Kucinich organization supported Obama, doesn't mean that their supporters should follow in line; Edwards is a viable, attractive alternative for Kucinich supporters -- I should know since I was one in 2004.


It Boils Down To.... (4.00 / 1)
...do we/you really believe that Edwards believes what he's now saying; believes it deeply enough to truly go toe to toe with the forces of the corrupt status quo which he rightly rails against?

My own sense is that he's sincere; obviously, others aren't buying it.

There is indeed a risk in voting for Edwards in that, should he not achieve the 15% threshold in NJ it might wind up helping the least progressive of our three candidates.

On the other hand, if progressives actually voted their hopes rather than their fears, Edwards would indeed be viable.

I wish the Democrats had stuck to simply attacking the Bush presidency and pointing out how the Republicans now running have all been enablers of that corrupt administration.

I wish there was some way to combine the wonkish clarity and energetic brilliance of Clinton with the charisma and leadership qualities of Obama and the clearly more progressive agenda of Edwards into a single candidate; in lieu of that perfect candidate, I'm sticking with Edwards.

Martin said it well,

Factually speaking, Edwards consistently posts the best numbers against the Republicans in the general election polls; in terms of downticket races, he would be the strongest Democratic to have at the top of the ticket and would pull in numbers for congressional and local races that, in my estimation, Clinton and Obama simply couldn't do.

http://www.presidentelectionpo...


A crazy idea! (0.00 / 0)
I really doubt that anything that anybody writes is going to persuade anybody to vote in a particular way on Tuesday.  

So, putting in diaries with news and first-hand accounts of events would be useful.  But, getting into a thread war attacking one perspective or another is really a waste of time.

If you really want to have an impact on Tuesday, then spend time contacting ACTUAL VOTERS!


I Guess There Are No "actual voters" Who Read Blue Jersey (0.00 / 0)
If you check the  "site meter" at the bottom of the page, you'll find that there are thousands of visitors and page views per week here.   Most of those folks don't post (I wish they did!!!) and I suspect many of them have never "signed up" to the site.  

The idea that, "it's crazy" to think that sharing our views and information about the candidates in the upcoming NJ Democratic Primary will have no effects on any "real voters" is dubious at best.

In fact I would go so far as to suggest to you that the folks who read this blog tend to be politically active well informed voters who are influential opinion leaders in their own circles.

I agree that "news and first hand accounts" are useful data; that's why I added that link to a poll showing that Edwards could do well in a general....on the other hand, having people share their own thoughts/reasoning/feelings also has value to/for me.

 


precisely (0.00 / 0)
In fact I would go so far as to suggest to you that the folks who read this blog tend to be politically active well informed voters who are influential opinion leaders in their own circles.

I figure they have already made up their minds.  After all, you and Carol are sticking with Edwards even though it is increasingly evident that Edwards will not come close to getting one delegate next Tuesday.  You continue to refuse to take an opportunity to help the more progressive viable candidate while arguing with those who have made that choice.

But, I am sure that your continued heavy blogging will prove me wrong.  :-)

Adios for now.


[ Parent ]
What You Don't Know Is..... (0.00 / 0)
......what price Edwards might have extracted from Clinton and Obama for leaving the race (beyond the vague commitment to "end poverty").

Without people like me and Carolh and millions of other progressives "sticking" with Edwards as long as we did (and not "jumping ship") Edwards wouldn't have had whatever leverage he utilized today.  

BTW, the results of the poll here, so far:

* Barack Obama - 32 votes (60.38%)
* John Edwards - 13 votes (24.53%)

show that about one out of four Blue Jerseyans also "stuck it out" in declaring their loyalty to Edwards despite nearly overwhelming pressures to cave.   So it ain't just me and Carolh; there are lot's of staunch progressives here.  And lot's more that have (sadly) never heard of this site.

Edwards is no longer a candidate; but I've got news for you; his agenda preceded him and it will be carried forward by committed progressives throughout this state and nation!!!

I'm glad to know, Creed,  that we're finally on the same mission (for whatever reasons) and that mission is to insure that Barak Obama becomes the next President of the United States.

Obama has a capacity to evolve/grow in office that I don't see in Clinton;  Barak Obama deserves our full and enthusiastic support at this  time!!!


[ Parent ]
So explain (4.00 / 1)
why was Edwards fine for Kucinich to endorse in 2004 - but not now?  

Lets take a closer look at your analysis, shall we?

OMG! he voted not to lower the drinking age!  And he doesn't want marijuana legal!  And he thinks guns should be legal just because of that pesky Bill of Rights.

Double OMG!! He actually thinks lawyers HELP people!  And he wants troops out right away but not every last one!  Shocking!

Reality Check: the unions love him, his healthcare plan covers EVERYBODY, it was the right thing to do to go into Kosovo, it is the right thing to do to give the troops the funds they need, and he can't force Bush to enforce anything.  Congress hasn't been able to get Bush to do anything Bush doesn't want to do. You are going to blame EDWARDS for Bush failing the US?  One former Senator?  Please.

About the support of NAFTA - are you sure on that one?  He isn't against trade - he IS against trade with partners who don't protect workers' rights and so cause jobs to be lost from the US.

"First get your facts straight - then distort them as much as you want"  - Mark Twain

From your post it's clear - The only thing John Edwards regrets about the past - is trusting the Bush Administration.  I think a lot of Americans can sympathize with him there.  

One Vote.  Yours.  It really does matter.


Voting for Edwards (4.00 / 2)
A vote for John Edwards in the NJ primary is a vote for John Edwards--not for anyone else.  

I am bothered by the shrillness of some former Kucinich supporters now backing Obama over Clinton and urging Edward supporters to abandon him and move to their candidate.  I was likewise bothered by Obama's recent statement that people who supported Clinton in the primary would support Obama in the general, but not vice versa.

I particularly object to the tone of Vin Gopal's entry:  "If Edwards' wasn't in the NJ race, his support would go to Obama.... a vote for John Edwards is a vote for Hillary Clinton. The possibility of Clinton as the nominee is scary and I think Edwards supporters understand that...."  

Don't make such assumptions about us, please--and stop the hysteria about Clinton.  This is not a general election--this is a Democratic primary, in which we all have an opportunity to vote our preference.  When things shake out and there finally is a Democratic nominee--months from now--I hope all of us will be supporting whoever it is.  

I will vote for John Edwards next week because his campaign is having the right kind of impact--raising the important issues and moving the campaign in a more progressive direction.  

If either Clinton or Obama becomes the Democratic candidate for president, I will be proud to work like bloody hell to put the Democratic candidate in the White House, whoever it is, and I think Edwards' supporters will do likewise.  Can Kucinich's former supporters who are now promoting Obama make that same pledge?


"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."  (Teddy Roosevelt)


didn't mean to give a tone (0.00 / 0)
I didn't mean for my tone to be offensive...I'm saying thats what I believe will happen....

When thousands of us marched in NYC and DC in the lead up to the war in Iraq, a war that is resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, I won't every forget having my TV on C-SPAN and watching John Edwards stand there talking about how proud he is to be a co-sponsor of the war in Iraq and how proud he is to support his president in protecting out country.

He did the same thing for the US Patriot Act and countless other bills that have resulted in the deteriotation of this country.

The fact that Edwards has done a complete turnaround in the last 12 months since he announced his presidential campaign is a great thing, but it scares me that he didn't do it until after he was running for president so he can see how to position himself.

I Barack Obama is right when he says this election is about judgement, change and getting rid of the ways of Washington and I think he is the best person in the current field to invoke those changes.

"But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars." - Barack Obama, 2002


Issues that distinguish (0.00 / 0)
You said, "When thousands of us marched in NYC and DC in the lead up to the war in Iraq, a war that is resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, I won't every forget having my TV on C-SPAN..."  Well, I was there too, but without my TV.  

My point was about Edwards' real and positive impact on the agendas of the other candidates.  I thought I was being clear, but perhaps not.

A lot of people supported the resolution on Iraq and have come to regret it--but how many have publicly said they were wrong?  As for the last sentence of your quote from Obama, I'm astonished.  This was not a "dumb war," it was a totally unjustified war based on lies.  The vast majority of the American public bought it--and so did most members of Congress.

Now that most Americans know better--with the exception of the Republican candidates and other diehard right wingnuts--they want the war to end.  Don't we all!  I think most of us can forgive a politician for having been wrong on an issue--especially when they admit it.  Now that all three candidates want to bring the troops home, the war is no longer the major issue in the Democratic primaries.  Our issues involve the economy, health care, the plight of the middle class, the right to organize...and more...and on all of these, Edwards has been out in front and the other candidates have moved towards his position.

That's why I'm supporting him--I want that movement to continue.  I hope I'm being clear!  

 

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."  (Teddy Roosevelt)


[ Parent ]
And a postscript (0.00 / 0)
I am among the many who have pledged to support the Democratic nominee when there is one.  Will you join us?

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."  (Teddy Roosevelt)

[ Parent ]
So why did you (0.00 / 0)
become so  committed to a hopeless candidacy? & now you have the cheek  to lecture John Edwards' supporters? This diary is pure flackery,  & if you're not getting   paid  for writing it  then I suggest  you  break the habit  of  writing  stuff like this  for  free.  

If John Edwards won the nomination (0.00 / 0)
I would support him in a heart beat. I don't think his record is consistent on a lot of important issues - I love that he talks so much about poverty and populist ideals....and if he won the nomination I'd support him immediatley...but on February 5th I am voting for Barack Obama because I think he is the best out of the 3 candidates.

To answer weslylakes' comment, I supported Dennis Kucinich throughout all of 2007 because it was important for his issues such as marriage equality, impeachment, ending NAFTA/WTO, single-payer healthcare.....all issues I believe in strongly (that John Edwards does not) to be discussed during every presidential debate in 2007. All those issues were discussed thanks to Dennis' campaign.

None of the 3 current candidates support any of those issues so now I am going with who I think is the best out of the 3 candidates as far as who bring about real change....and I think that is Barack Obama.  


I'm commenting after Edwards has pulled out (0.00 / 0)
I see this diary as a 2nd rate hit piece. I've seen the same kinda stuff posted at Kos & DU. I pay it no heed. I just file this under "Another candidate hit Diary".

To the author, however it works for you is fine with me.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


What a joke (0.00 / 0)
This is after Edwards already left the race, but the whining from Kucinich and Obama over Edwards' AUMF vote is a joke at best.

For Kucinich people to claim that that vote permanently disqualified Edwards, I remind you that until his election conversion to pro-choice Kucinich was a lifelong pro-lifer.  How can a lifetime of error be forgiven by you when you expect one bad vote -- which he rectified in 2003 by refusing to vote to fund the war -- disqualifies Edwards?

As for Obama being pure on the Iraq War, that's ridiculous.  He has voted repeatedly to pay for the war in supplemental funding bills that don't count toward the deficit, had no conditions or oversight strings attached, and gave Bush absolute freedom to prosecute the war any way he liked even after proving he was wrong and incompetent.

If Obama knew the war was a mistake BEFORE it happened, at least Edwards was smart enough to know Bush was incompetent very quickly and remove his support.


straw man (0.00 / 0)
You're fighting a straw man. Who ever said anything about purity? But if that helps you rationalize things...

[ Parent ]
Not true (0.00 / 0)
Obama used his position on the AUMF when he was a candidate as proof that he has great judgment, and Obama used Edwards voting for AUMF as proof that Edwards had bad judgement.

That's the purity argument I am talking about.

But Edwards turned around and dropped his support and voted against giving Bush unfettered access to the money.

And Obama turned around and voted to give Bush unfettered access to the money.

Which is why I say that they are all right at times and wrong on times on the issue, and the idea that Obama has a better record is ridiculous.

So, no, it's not a straw man.  My point is that both were right, both were wrong, and trying to demonstrate that one had better than the other based solely on AUMF makes no sense.


[ Parent ]
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