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A Tale of Two Counties (and one Presidential Candidate)

by: Thurman Hart

Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:38:48 AM EST



With apologies:
IT WAS the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way

So is the comparison between the supporters of Hillary Clinton in Hudson and Bergen Counties.  Click on through to the other page.  You'll be glad you did.

Thurman Hart :: A Tale of Two Counties (and one Presidential Candidate)
We start in Bergen County where Hillary-love reached a fevered pitch yesterday as Boss Moe County Party chair Joe Ferriero rolled out the red carpet for the former First Lady/Senator from New York/Presidential candidate:
"I think it's both significant and historic," said Bergen County Democratic chairman Joseph Ferriero of Clinton's visit. "It's not often that you have a presidential candidate come to Bergen County before the primary."

Let it never be said that Joe Ferriero can't be redundant with the best of them.  I mean, when was the last historic even that wasn't significant?  And how often do Presidential candidates come to Bergen County after the primary?  (I only kid because I love - oh yeah!)

Not to be outdone is the "say-something-that-might-sound-astute" department, we have this gem:

"It goes to the fact that we're really relevant in the state now in the primary season," said Democratic state chairman, Sen. Joseph Cryan, D-Union.
 Color me confused.  Is he saying Bergen County is relevant in the state now - because it always is (has the largest population of NJ's counties).  And is he talking about Union - which is in Union County - or Bergen?  I dunno.  Joe Cryan is kind of an enigma wrapped in a mystery smothered in a plate of pasta.  Or something.

But Hillary showed that she could outdo them both:

"I was told if you say thanks to Joe in New Jersey, a lot of people will be thanked," she said.
 Oh, I get it - because New Jersey's the only place where people name their kid "Joseph", right? Not like in New York!  Ah, I guess it's only fair when the Two Joe's (Ferriero and Cryan) have been astut-ing up the place.

But seriously, Clinton worked both sides of her mouth:

She discussed policy, pledging universal health care, an overhaul of the student loan industry and promising to "responsibly" remove troops from Iraq within the first months of her administration.

"Within 60 days of my becoming president, we are leaving!" she said of Iraq.

Ok - first, it's just kind of an irritant to me to hear of people "responsibly" removing troops.  That would indicate that there is an irresponsible way to do that - which I suppose simply telling them to get home on their own would be.  But short of that, what exactly is she telling us?  In the CNN debate just a few nights ago, she told Wolf Blitzer that she wouldn't commit to doing anything with troops because there's no way to know what Chimpy (my term - not one she used) will do between now and then.  I hate to say it (and I'm being honest about that) but I get the feeling that she's getting ready to launch a "homeward bound surge" if she gets the chance - bring a few thousand home and say, "Well, that's the best we can do.  It would be irresponsible to do more."

"I touched her!" said an excited Marjorie Santoro, a math teacher at a Hackensack Middle School who wore a Clinton t-shirt for the occasion. "She has such soft, beautiful hands."
 Well, that's a reason to vote for her!  Convinced me!  You were expecting claws maybe (I suppose, if you watch Fox News, you would be)?

Mrs. Clinton did not indicate how she felt about being touched.  But it appears she did some touching of her own:

"I came here expecting to be a supporter of her, but she just touched my soul" said Linda Flynn, a Hackensack middle school teacher, who wore a Hillary t-shirt and squealed when Clinton, took notice during the rally.
What power - to touch the soul by noticing a tshirt with Clinton's name on it.  Not that it has ever happened, but I think I would notice someone walking around with my name on their shirt - though that would probably mean someone stole it from me.

I know I'm making light of things, but it would appear that the news of the day is that politicians aren't the only ones who say silly things.  It's understandable for someone to be a little squishy when they meet the potential next President.  It's the inane rhetoric from politicians that bothers me - and it works because people suspend their common sense and get swept up in the spectacle of Presidential politics.  It's the emotionality that leads to hero-worship and that, in turn, leads to allowing leaders to escape accountability for their actions (I mean this in a general sense, not as any swipe at Hillary).  Over-emotionality makes empty rhetoric work.  And politicians return to it again and again like a wino digging through the garbage for another bottle of Thunder-chicken.

On then to Hudson County, where Clinton's visit was kept under wraps so as not to embarrass Mayor Jerramiah Healy.  In the home of Gov. Corzine and Sen. Menendez, the Democratic operations have been blunted by - really?  Concern for hurting Mayor Healy's feelings?  Wow.  This is the guy who fought with the Bradley Beach police (literally) and then drug the fight through the front-pages of the newspapers for weeks.  And we're going to hurt his feelings with anything short of a two-by-four to the forehead?

Huh.  Go figure.

But Hudson County has a reputation as being "dependable".  Also for paying people to vote.  Also for letting dead people vote.  Our county motto is "Vote early.  Vote often.  Vote from beyond the grave."  I'm not sure how you put that in Latin, but I'm sure it sounds more impressive that way.

I can say that I've seen the same Obama commercial about seven times on CNN and even got a call from Hillary's organization yesterday.  I've decided not to answer my phone unless I recognize the number on caller-ID (I hate political phone-calls).  

Two counties.  Two stories of Presidential politics.  One opinionated former Texan saying, "As long as you participate, it's good.  But it's better if you do what I say."

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Do what I say (3.29 / 7)
rate this a four if you like it.  If you hate it, rate it a four.  If you're ambivalent, then rate it a four.

Even if you're dead.


Elitism Isn't Pretty (0.00 / 0)
I realize most of the readers (and certainly the commenters and diarists, especially the front-page ones) are much smarter than the average person.  I realize that they do not allow themselves to get seized with Emily Litella-itis or to make mountains out of molehills (particularly those that don't exist).

But, this is so dismissive of people whose support those of us in practical politics would like to have.

This whole mess over the last few days really does not seem like you.


Not dismissive (4.00 / 2)
it isn't intended to be dismissive of the supporters - though I think a reporter who goes out of their way to include a quote that a candidate "has soft hands" is deserving of a bit of askance.

On the other hand, it is an excellent example of why Clinton is so polarizing - those who love her do so beyond any explanation, and those that hate her do the same.  This love/hate thing blinds both sides to where the rest of us see her - and for the record, I see her as a wonderful candidate and a great politician, but one who will ultimately be detrimental to Democrats throughout the country.  It's a shame, but I prefer not to bury my head on that matter.

As for the comments of Ferriero and Cryan, they are pretty silly and I don't think it's wrong in any way to point it out.  

"This whole mess" as you put it is only a mess because of the de facto coronation of Hillary Clinton as the only candidate good Democrats should support in Jersey.  The problem is that, for years, there has been an incestuous relationship between official positions and personal ones.  Part of "being relevant" is that such cross-over infections do cause problems and have to be exposed as such.

One problem with politics in America is that it tends towards pandering and platitude.  This diary is intended to highlight where that problems originates.

But I appreciate the ratings.  And I thank everyone for weighing in - even if they think it's total crap.


[ Parent ]
Your diary hurts your point (0.00 / 0)
Poking fun at Ferriero and Cryan is one thing.  They aren't in danger of giving Daniel Webster a run for his money.

Mentioning that Hillary made a faux pas condemning patronage at an event hosted by a guy who has made it a way of life is one thing.

But, ridiculing the voters is not a way to win hearts and minds.


[ Parent ]
I'm not running for office (0.00 / 0)
so I'm not worried about hearts and minds.  I'm critiquing an event as it was reported - what would you rather have me use?

Are you saying "soft hands" is a good way to pick a President?  That it is in any way relevant to the event or cause for the event?

Maybe you are claiming that Hillary's ability to pick out a tshirt with her name on it is what touched her supporter's soul...

I doubt it.  And I doubt that is your point at all.  But it is my point.


[ Parent ]
So You're OK With The Light of Scrutiny Being Shed On.... (4.00 / 1)
Ferriero and Cryan!!!   Great!!

And your'e OK with....

Mentioning that Hillary made a faux pas condemning patronage at an event hosted by a guy who has made it a way of life ....

That's Wonderful!!!  We're making some progress!!!   Though XT did more than merely "mention"  that  

"Hillary made a faux pas condemning patronage at an event hosted by a guy who has made it a way of life".  
, eh?

Evidently, now your objection to the diary hangs on the following slender thread....

But, ridiculing the voters is not a way to win hearts and minds.

I would be willing to bet that if the ladies that were interviewed read XT's diary, and spent twenty minutes chatting with him about politics that they would come out of it not feeling "ridiculed" at all.    

You know exactly what XT's point/intent was; but instead of acknowledging the obvious truth that too many people vote on the basis of a kind of uninformed hero worship (a la George Bush)...you choose to spin/distort and make the righteous reformer out to be a bad "elitist" who "ridicules" voters.   Damn, Karl Rove would be so proud of you!!!

If anyone is truly ridiculing voters it's the legally corrupt establishments of BOTH parties that continue to take legalized bribery and to SCREW the ordinary rank and file citizens who actually believe the bullshit that is presented on the commercials that are bought and paid for with money "contributed" by special interests who don't GIVE A DAMN about what's good for ordinary (i.e. unconnected unmonied) people.   Now, THAT'S real ridicule!
 


[ Parent ]
I really don't write for YOUR approval. (0.00 / 0)
Wow, many people make the decision on whom to vote for on grounds that you consider "superficial."  First, no kidding.  Second, who are you to judge???   Your wheat to chaff ratio is rather low, so very few would consider you "informed."  

[ Parent ]
Inconsistent, Mischaracterization, Distraction and Diversion (0.00 / 0)
....first you say, "no kidding" like I'm stating the obvious; then you question who I am to "judge".

I have a right to my opinion.   You have a right to mischaracterize it and to try to spin it in a negative way....and I have a right to expose your games.  Done.

Face it, in effect, you carry water for the legally corrupt status quo vis a vis campaign finance and the way the various state/county committees "rule" and foks like me and others here oppose the legally corrupt pay to play status quo. Let's try to keep our arguments on those points.

Your efforts to distract/divert all the conversation here from those fundamental policy disagreements are transparent.


[ Parent ]
Iraq Withdrawal (0.00 / 0)
That is actually not what she intends to do at all.  Her plan call for a phased withdrawal out of Iraq, say a couple of battalions a month.  That is the responsible way to go about this.  You cannot simply yank every troop out within a few days.  John Edwards plan for example is ridiculously naive and irresponsible.  Phased troop withdrawal is the only way to get all of the troops out  and also limiting damage to Iraqi infrastructure and social unrest.  
Simply removing all of the troops withing an immediate timeframe is the irresponsible route.  Having a degree in IR, I can tell you that removing troops immediately would only increase the attacks to a fever pitch and would also place embassy staff and support personnel in Iraq at risk.  Not to mention the NGO workers on the ground there.  Removing them with President Clinton's plan allows them to fully see the results of each phased redeployment (the troops will obviously be sent somewhere else, i.e. Afghanistan) and allow for a little more flexibility.  Sen. Clinton does have some of the most revered diplomats on her advisory committee, such as Ambassadors Holbrooke and Albright, both former US ambassadors to the UN and one of them was Secretary or State.  
People drive me absolutely crazy when they critique plans that don't call for immediate removal.  These troops aren't just pawns and I think planning and taking our time with removing this number of troops out of a country is not something that should be mocked.  

oops (0.00 / 0)
Where I said "President Clinton" I meant Senator Clinton.

[ Parent ]
I'll see your degree (4.00 / 2)
(an MA in Poli Sci - of which IR is a subfield) and raise you six years in the military.  I've probably participated in more troop movements than you've studied.  The logistics of moving over a hundred thousand troops is staggering.  

You are also misrepresenting Edwards' position - "nine to ten months" is no where close to "a few days".  If you didn't know that, then you shouldn't comment on it.  If you do, then it's just dishonest.  And I'm speaking as someone who has openly stated that the best thing Edwards can do is drop out.

I'm not critiquing a a plan that doesn't "call for immediate removal".  I'm critiquing the pandering of a candidate who promises from one side of her mouth to have them out in sixty days and from the other side of her mouth says that may not be possible.  This is what Obama means when he says "she will say anything and do nothing".

I'm not sure where you get Albright and Holbrooke as being "some of the most revered diplomats".  Holbrooke's comments helped provide cover for the Bush Administration, and the same could be said of Albright.  Both were given their credentials by Hillary's husband - something you conveniently forget to mention.  As far as credentials goes - Obama has Gen. Scot Gration and Zbigniew Brzenzinski advising him.  I think that's probably enough heft to take him seriously.  I'm not sure who Edwards has on staff, but I'm sure he isn't just pulling stuff of the top of his head.

I hate it when HRC supporters pull this crap.


[ Parent ]
That is really a bunch of hooey (4.00 / 1)
NOBODY is talking about a mass immediate withdrawal.  Those of us who were right about this war from the beginning aren't that stupid.  No one is looking at Saigon or Dunkirk.  But, a serious proposal for withdrawal is to bring out a brigade a month (maybe every six weeks) which would mean that virtually all of our combat troops are out by the middle of 2010.  Hillary is being rather disingenuous with this argument about protecting our "friends."  We could open our immigration pathways to those people.  But also, unless we are trapping all of them in the Green Zone, what are we going to do?  Leave 50,000 to 75,000 troops there to protect them for the next 100 years?

The other problem with that whole "point" is who are these people?  Too many of the people who would get classified as "friends" are the Chalabis in Iraq.  Bush has made a complete mess and is not working to fix it but to trap his successor into staying in the quagmire. When Hillary says things like this, it sounds more like she is trying to make nice with the commentariat rather than making the right decisions for the American people.


[ Parent ]
Well Said! (0.00 / 0)
Bush has made a complete mess and is not working to fix it but to trap his successor into staying in the quagmire. When Hillary says things like this, it sounds more like she is trying to make nice with the commentariat rather than making the right decisions for the American people.
 (Emphasis added)

[ Parent ]
doesn't it warm your heart (0.00 / 0)
to know that these are the people shaping young minds

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