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Over-reaching on Public Health - and Your Toddler will Pay for It

by: Thurman Hart

Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 04:26:41 PM EST



The Public Health Council proved today that they are incapable of doing their job.  They approved, by a 5-2 vote, a measure that will force every child in New Jersey to get a flu shot before attending daycare or pre-school.  Normally I support vaccination efforts whole-heartedly, but this is one STUPID measure that can actually hurt as many people as it helps.

The CDC does recommend that children age six months to five years get vaccinated annually for the flu.  The problem is that the flu vaccine is never a guarantee that a child will not develop the flu.  From the CDC:

The ability of flu vaccine to protect a person depends on the age and health status of the person getting the vaccine, and the similarity or "match" between the virus strains in the vaccine and those in circulation.
Thurman Hart :: Over-reaching on Public Health - and Your Toddler will Pay for It
This is basically the equivalent of saying, "Your child might be exposed to one of the following: measles, mumps, rheumatic fever, yellow fever, tuberculosis, or yellow fever.  So we will pick one vaccination at random to give your child and hope for the best."  How effective is the flu vaccine in children?  Again, the CDC:
The flu vaccine can prevent 66% or more influenza infections in young children, with even higher estimates for older children, when the vaccine strains are well-matched to the flu viruses causing illness.  Vaccinating close contacts of children can also help decrease children's risk of getting the flu.

"when the vaccine strains are well-matched to the flue viruses causing illness".  Otherwise, it does squat.  Oh, and even when they match, if every adult around the child - at home, at school, at church, in the carpool - doesn't get the same vaccination, then those odds are reduced.  THIS IS THE BEST CASE SCENARIO.

The problem is that almost no one actually lives in a best case scenario.  Beyond that, almost no one actually suffers from the flu - a recent study found that fewer than 15% of reported flu cases were actually flu virus infections.  The remainder was "flu-like infections".  The flu vaccine gives absolutely no protection against non-flu viruses. 

The Canadian Medical Association Journal also has published a study that challenges the ability of the flu vaccine to actually prevent you from being sick.  The 66% number given above by the CDC for children is the ability of the body to produce anti-viral compounds.  The actual ability of the vaccine to keep you from getting sick may be as low as 25%.

But the requirement to give flu vaccine to children is wrong-headed because of two important factors.  First, a child who is vaccinated for the flu is less likely to be taken by his or her parents to the doctor as soon as symptoms appear.  This loses valuable time in treating a sick child (note: once you have a viral infection, there is little the doctor can do but to treat the symptoms and give the body time to work).  This puts a vaccinated child a higher risk for developing a high fever and/or dehydration because the parents believe that the vaccination will protect their child.

Second, forcing vaccinations to be given to healthy children can result in a shortage for medically fragile populations.  There are some people who should get a flu vaccine every single year because they have either a high rate of exposure (healthcare providers) or because they have a compromised immune system (lupus sufferers).  Those sixty-five and older are recommended being vaccinated every year. 

Flu vaccine cannot be produced overnight.  It is made with either dead or attenuated virus, so it has to be grown.  This means that a shortage caused by pre-school children using all of the available vaccine would likely cause a shortage for at least a few weeks while new vaccine was grown.  How many healthcare providers, teachers, and elderly people will spread a highly contagious flu vaccine in that time?

The best way to prevent the flu is to remain healthy and to practice good hygiene.  Wash your hands and face often with soap and water (it doesn't need to be anti-bacterial - studies show they are no better than regular soap because the substance isn't on your skin long enough to matter).  Cover your mouth and nose when you cough or sneeze.  And if you get sick - STAY HOME AND DON'T SPREAD IT AROUND.  Teach your children to do the same.

It isn't easy to get kids to take hygiene seriously (trust me - I'm happy when the twins only put "clean trash" in their mouths).  But we shouldn't rely on a shot-in-the-dark vaccination to take the place of teaching our kids how to take care of themselves and those around them.  And, to be honest, I'm not crazy about shoving viruses, live or not, into my kids' bodies on scant evidence that it will do any good for them.

Yeah, but Big Pharma will make a killing if they can get a new vaccine put on the "required" list.

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It's ALL About Pharma Profits.... (1.00 / 1)
Forbes is already reporting this as a boon for the industry.

http://www.forbes.co...


No, it is not ... (0.00 / 0)
The NJ dept of health and the public health council have repeatedly turned down making vaccines mandatory that PHRMA requested. 

Recently PHRMA put the hard sell on the cervical cancer vaccine, and that was denied. 

I'm not a big fan of PHRMA or their influence on our country and our markets, but just because they benefit doesn't mean that the people making the choice are doing it for that benefit.


[ Parent ]
Right, It's Not.... (2.50 / 2)
.....as simple as a one sentence declaration.

Here's the (relatively) unabridged version.

I too strongly doubt that the people who made the decision were conscious/evil tools of a consciously evil greedy industry. 

It's the cumulative effects of a hundred different levels and layers that create a totality that truly does amount to a medical industrial complex that, in the aggregate, is more concerned with profits than with truly preventing and healing illness for all people.

It's perverse in that, at every level/layer people have all manner of convenient rationalizations and justifications for towing the corporate line.

The movie Sicko does a nice job of pointing out some of the elements.

There are scores of books written of the problems with vaccines in kids.  Hell, they actually used MERCURY (a neurotoxin) as a preservative as recently as two years ago.

Decisions like mandatory vaccinations that are arrived at with no opportunity for input or hearings from the parents are wrong.

The idea of "herd" immunity is fine for cattle.  But if you have the kid who happens to be sensitive and is damaged or dies because of a reaction; you're not going to be very comforted by the frame of your child being part of a "herd".

Sorry, I don't trust big pharma.  Especially after the way they screwed Medicare and our seniors out of many many billions (with the help of lots of Republicans).

Here's some articles on pharma that expose a bit of their MO.

http://www.nytimes.c...
http://www.nytimes.c...

http://www.medicalco...

Doubts About Safety of Flu Vaccine in Kids

  Last winter, researchers found that influenza vaccines provide no benefit to babies under age two years. In children over the age of two, vaccines showed a modest reduction in cases of influenza. But there is no evidence that vaccines can prevent the serious complications that are the primary justification for vaccinating children. That was the conclusion of a review of all relevant studies published last February in the British journal, Lancet.

  The authors of this review, Tom Jefferson, MD, and colleagues at the Cochrane Collaboration, recently wrote a follow-up in a letter to the editor of The Lancet. They reported that the safety of influenza vaccines given to babies and children is unknown. Incredibly, most of the trials they reviewed were not designed to assess serious adverse reactions.

It may eventually turn out that these particular vaccines are actually a good thing; but if I had a set of young twins I would want to know that there were objective hearings and that all sides had a chance to have their voices hear and to know that anyone who had a "whistle" to blow on the deal had an open invitation. 

I wonder how we as adults would feel if we were told that we would all have to subject our selves to a vaccine with or without our permission to "immunize the herd"?

Please do read those articles.


[ Parent ]
Corrections.... (1.00 / 1)
As it turns out there were some hearings on this last January!

Further, it seems (from the way the Record piece is written) that these vaccines that are being approved actually DO use mercury as a preservative!  If that pans out as true; it's outrageous!!!

http://www.bergenrec...

Parents concerned about possible dangers of the new vaccines - as well as the cumulative effect of young children getting about a total of about three dozen vaccine doses - and groups opposed to government intrusion in their family's medical decisions spoke against the new rules at a public hearing last January. They note the flu vaccines contain mercury, a toxic heavy metal.

There is NO safe dose for mercury.  Especially in growing little brains. 

I could understand if there was a particularly lethal pandemic strain of flue that was on its way and the only shot we had was to vaccinate the WHOLE "herd"; but we're not there.

It's time for the parents of youngsters in NJ to organize.


[ Parent ]
Doesn't have to have thimerisol (0.00 / 0)
You can get it without thimerisol, and I make sure all vaccines going into my family is thimerisol free.

[ Parent ]
the purpose of required vaccinations (0.00 / 0)
You shouldn't consider mandated vaccinations against communicable diseases as protecting your kid.  That are about protecting a class of people, in this case the pre-school and kindergarten age, from the potential for an outbreak or epidemic.

By mandating that all kids in this age group get the vaccine it confers a "herd immunity" on the classes so that one kid coming in doesn't infect a large number of kids, and that those kids don't give it to their families, and that their families don't to out to work and school to pass it on further.

This is about group immunity, not individual immunity.


Sorry (4.00 / 1)
that's bullshit in this case.

With mumps, where there's a single culprit that we can protect against, it's true.  When there are thousands of flu viruses and tens of thousands of flu-like viruses, there's no protection at all offered. 

To hell with what she wants, let's make Rosi Efthim the next DSC chair.


[ Parent ]
I wanted to add (2.50 / 2)
if there were an outbreak of a particularly virulent strain, I'd go along with immunization against flu.  Short of that, the statistics reduce it to nothing more than a prayer.

To hell with what she wants, let's make Rosi Efthim the next DSC chair.

[ Parent ]
at that point it's too late (4.00 / 2)
n/t

[ Parent ]
More false information (4.00 / 1)
Flu season in the US starts in November and runs through late March.  Around the end of February, formulations for next year's flu vaccine begins.  Are you seriously saying that there isn't enough time from February to December to know if a particularly virulent strain is active? (Source)

From April through September, flu season shifts to the Southern Hemisphere.  The tropics have no off-season for flu.  So there is worldwide monitoring at all times.  You can't seriously be suggesting that we have absolutely no warning at all on flu outbreaks - have you never watched the news in November and December? 

It takes about 10-15 days for the flu vaccine to be fully active in a human being.  I still maintain that you are better off to not vaccinate against flu unless a particularly virulent strain is active.  Even if an individual parent doesn't watch the news, the governments of the world report flu statistics to the WHO who then relays it back to the governments, including school boards.

Flu vaccine doesn't get manufactured overnight, but there is plenty of time to get ahead of major outbreaks.  Canada now has the capacity to develop 50 million doses in four months' time. The last flu pandemic was in 1968-9, and it barely reached pandemic status. 

The strains most likely to cause widespread public health problems are those that do not already exist in a form to which humans are susceptible.  That means that vaccination is simply not possible because the virus against which we would need to be vaccinated does not exist.

Misinformation, even well-intentioned, doesn't help anything.  Please note that I'm not talking about any of the tangential issues, such as the use of mercury.  I'm simply talking about the fact that the flu vaccine CANNOT provide widespread protection.  For an individual, it is a crapshoot.  For an entire class of people, it is worse than not vaccinating.

To hell with what she wants, let's make Rosi Efthim the next DSC chair.


[ Parent ]
I think you misunderstood my meaning (0.00 / 0)
It's not too late to vaccinate, but short of enacting the quarantine powers of the Commissioner of Health and Senior Services or the police powers of the Governor or President you cannot enact a mandatory vaccination program fast enough for mass prophylaxis.  At least not legally.

There's enough time to VACCINATE everyone, but not enough time to mandate it in order to get the numbers high enough to make a difference.

The only way for mass vaccination to be effective against an outbreak is to mandate the vaccination ahead of time or to enact drastic measures to ensure mass vaccination.

But you can't wait until the strain already hits and then hope people get it.  That just won't work.

And, I am just noting the other side of the argument.  I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the policy.


[ Parent ]
you really want to use that language? (3.00 / 1)
it's not so great for dialog.

But for that, you are talking about a single classroom and viewing this as a father over his two kids.

The public health council is looking at it from a statewide issue to build herd immunity.  It doesn't necessarily protect one kid or three kids who are at the epicenter, but it does keep the circle significantly smaller.

This is why they push getting so many people vaccinated every year -- to prevent epidemics.  It doesn't always keep you from getting it, but keeps the community from being totally slammed.


[ Parent ]
language (0.00 / 0)
Someone who has been a part of this site as long as you have shouldn't be surprised by XT's choice of language.  It isn't anywhere near the first time and it sure won't be the last time.

Maybe it is the first time that it has been directed at you.  If that's the case, all I can say is that if you had made more of an issue of it when it was being directed at others, your protests about it now might carry more weight.


[ Parent ]
That's a joke ... (0.00 / 0)
Huntsu gets plenty of attacks from others on this site, of this language and other.  Believe me, we can and have taken it.

As for my defending others, maybe I didn't see anything worth defending in what they wrote.


[ Parent ]
Yeah, I do (4.00 / 1)
because that's what it is.  I keep my kids up to date on all of their immunizations - but my wife and I have made an educated decision not to use the flu vaccine because it is totally useless.  I keep giving you statistics and you come back with the same platitudes.  That's not good for dialog either.

To hell with what she wants, let's make Rosi Efthim the next DSC chair.

[ Parent ]
To Be Fair (0.00 / 0)
I get frustrated with people who seem impervious to facts and only able to communicate with platitudes too.  Some of them have been on this thread even.  :-)

Statistics and medical science are that:
There is plenty of flu vaccine this season, so it isn't like a couple of years ago when all the Congressmen made sure they were immunized and we had shortages.

The only way to stop a virus is with antibodies.  If you get a vaccine, then your body has already created them.

The only vaccine licensed for use for children aged 6 months to 23 months IS thimerosal free which means it contains no mercury at all.

The amount of mercury that is actually in a vaccine that does use thimerosal is still an open question.

Additionally, I agree that we should try to restrain the use of profanity (even the vulgar term for bovine excrement which seems more acceptable in general conversation) on the blog, but we should take things in perspective.  If we have differences with people, we should have the guts to address those head-on rather than trying to settle scores in a sideways fashion.


[ Parent ]
The thing is (4.00 / 1)
Thimerosol is what they HOPE you focus on.  Please read carefully what I have said on this topic.  It is free glutamic acid which is in ALL vaccines that is linked to autism.  Free Glutamic acid is the main problem in vaccines.  The vaccine makers continously stress that since THIMEROSOL doesn't cause autism, then VACCINES don't.  Or they stress that if the vaccine doesn't have THIMEROSOL it is SAFE.  Sorry, that doesn't cut it if GLUTAMIC ACID is still present. 

You have fallen right into their trap, Creed.  Think different.

One Vote. Yours. It really does matter.


[ Parent ]
Free Glutamic Acid (0.00 / 0)
The first problem according to Dr. Lento was mercury.

Three different thoughts:

First, if "free glutamic acid" is so terrible and human breast milk contains far more of it than cow's milk, then are you telling mothers not to breastfeed???

Second, if "free glutamic acid" and MSG are closely related and most of the concern over "free glutamic acid" started with MSG, isn't much of this an overreaction to the problems that many of us (including me) have with MSG???

Third, if "free glutamic acid" helps our brains to function, then don't we need some?  How much is actually in a vial of vaccine???  Aren't we really talking about relatively insignificant amounts????


[ Parent ]
According to the folks who took Food Science (4.00 / 1)
Organic Chemistry and Nutrition in college - that would be me - you can make all the glutamate you need.  ANYTHING you eat is extra.  It is a NON-essential amino acid. 

According to Dr. Blaylock, the neurosurgeon - I have two audio clips of his on my website that explain the science - vaccines do several things.  They activate the immune system at the same time they contain free glutamic acid to preserve the virus.  Glutamic acid ALSO activates and can damage the same parts of the brain.  According to Dr. Blaylock, increasing the number of vaccines and the hit that the immune system takes - increases the type of inflammation in the brain seen in children with autism.  If the child ALSO has the genes for autism, which cause the glutamate synapses to form incorrectly, the child will not be able to handle free glutamic acid the same way a child without those autism genes would. 

I get injections all the time for food allergies.  I am not modern medicine averse.  I am simply stating that if there is a harmful and unnecessary component in these vaccines, that can be removed, and the hit on the immune system can be lessened in severity, ESPECIALLY for children genetically at risk for damage, then we would be foolish for turning away from examining this thoroughly. 

Free glutamate DECREASES glutathione levels.  Glutathione is the body's natural way to chelate and remove mercury.  You may not only be damaging a child's brain by introducing substances (glutamate) that decrease the ability to get rid of mercury, glutamate increases histamine response - you are actually making the immune caused inflammation WORSE. 

Why on earth is it now UnAmerican to not want poisons in my medicine?  If you don't want MSG in your food, Creed, why are you OK with it in your flu shot?

regarding answers to your questions:
Breast milk also contains protective taurine which actually had to be ADDED to baby formula in 1986 - it was deficient up to then.  Taurine is the second most prevalent free amino acid in the nervous system after glutamate.  Processed wheat and dairy contain so much more free glutamate because it unbinds it. Heat destroys taurine.  There is a fundamental balance that is thrown out of whack here.  It is like playing scrabble with too many of one letter. 

Free glutamic acid (also known as glutamate) is EXACTLY the business end of MSG.  There is basically MSG in these vaccines.  Glutamate is only effective as a neurotransmitter, or flavor enhancer, or virus preservative, in it's free unbound state. 

According to Dr. Blaylock, the amount needed to be a neurotransmitter is tiny and certain parts of the brain - like the hypothalamus is NOT protected by the blood brain barrier.  So, when you eat MSG, or inject it - which they do to create obese lab animals to test with - you are unbalancing a delicate system. 

Eating meat or protein with bound glutamate is not the problem - the body takes its time to digest it and split it up, but, eating glutamate or injecting it already in it's free state is going to tip the balance.  Putting it in a vaccine which is designed to put the immune system on red alert is simply asking for trouble, especially since Johns Hopkins researchers recently found a link between the immune system and the nervous system in the case of asthma. 

One Vote. Yours. It really does matter.


[ Parent ]
keep giving me? (0.00 / 0)
You wrote "bullshit" as a response to my first comment, so I hadn't had a chance to "come back" with "platitudes" or anything else to your statistics.

Maybe if someone has repeatedly given bullshit responses in a thread with you that might make sense, but to do it right out of the box makes no sense.


[ Parent ]
And please (4.00 / 1)
spare me the false outrage.  If you can't handle "bullshit" then you should really think twice about challenging people with platitudes.

To hell with what she wants, let's make Rosi Efthim the next DSC chair.

[ Parent ]
So much for my attempt to restore civility. :-) n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Jeebus, lighten up already. (0.00 / 0)
n/t

[ Parent ]
More Vaccines == More Autism (4.00 / 1)

Of course, there's no link that there is a cause, but it's equally true that no one is checking that these vaccines are safe.  They are safe in that kids don't die from the flu vaccination immediately, but no one is studying the long term  consequences.  It's no coincidence that populations of kids that don't have many vaccines have lower autism rates.

I'm determined not to let my child get the flu vaccination.  It looks like I'm going to have to join a church to get a religious exemption.

-pb


[ Parent ]
I have a definite opinion on this one (3.00 / 2)
based on what is in vaccines.  I think forcing vaccines on anyone is a bad idea.  We know based on the genome studies reported this year that the glutamate synapse formation is what goes awry in autistic children.  Glutamic acid is in these vaccines as a preservative. Glutamic acid is also high in wheat (gluten) and dairy (casein)products too.  AND glutamic acid lowers glutathione levels - found to be low in autistic children.  Glutathione chelates and removes mercury from the body.  And so, glutamate is found in all the items parents suspect of causing autism  AND it makes mercury from ANY source more toxic to a child.

Why give any children vaccines containing free glutamic acid when we KNOW it is the ingredient most closely tied to the autism based on the very latest scientific data? 

I just was in a newly released documentaray about this that should be in theatres very soon.  "The Beautiful Truth" was made by veteran film maker Steve Kroschel.  It shows just how badly the folks that want to vaccinate everyone have influenced our health in a negative way and throws some doubt on their motives.

For my entire interview, part of which is depicted in the film, check out this youtube clip:
http://www.youtube.c...

Former neurosurgeon  Dr. Russell Blaylock also appears in the movie, (check out the other links on my msgtruth.org webpage for Dr. Blaylock's lectures)  as does Dr. Olney who did the original research on monosodium glutamate that caused it to be removed from baby food decades ago.

MSG is basically in these vaccines.  The autistic genes code for glutamate.  Is anybody else uncomfortable with injecting kids under the age of 7 with this stuff?

Maybe I'm just jaded but my take on this Flu Vaccine story is this: Vaccine makers want to make sure EVERY child is vaccinated so they don't have any non-vaccinated children to compare to.  And so the vaccine-autism "controversy" will just go away.  And they will make more money. 

One Vote. Yours. It really does matter.


[ Parent ]
This Sounds Like The Left's Version of Fluorination (1.00 / 1)
I know that there is a concern over autism, but we cannot deny the benefits that vaccines have provided and will continue to provide.

[ Parent ]
The fluoride controversy (4.00 / 1)
is addressed in the movie as well as the mercury amalgam issue. 

FYI - Most poisonings of fluoride occur in children - who eat toothpaste.  Here's what happens:

http://www.emedicine...

"First - Do No Harm" 

I am against fluoridation of water and I don't use toothpaste with fluoride.  Mine has xylitol in it - a natural antimicrobial sweetener.

Try a different analogy :)

One Vote. Yours. It really does matter.


[ Parent ]
Wow (4.00 / 1)
Against fluoride in toothpaste too???  And I was a curmudgeon????  :-)

If you are going to hold out for a "perfect" solution, then you are never going to have one.

I'll just stick to boring things like facts, probability and statistical analysis.  For instance, the article pointed out that there were only 440 cases treated in emergency rooms across the country and no one died.  Of course, that is for ALL products containing fluoride.  Toothpaste has one part per thousand of flouride and according to the article you cited is considered NON-TOXIC.

Considering that dental care is generally not covered by health insurance and is a major need in poorer populations, discouraging people from using fluoride is just doing a grave disservice to everyone, but particularly to people in need.

There is no such thing as a medicine that doesn't have any adverse reactions and no toxicity level.  The question is does the medicine do more help than harm.  Tradeoffs are an integral part of the human existence.  Since we have a cerebral cortex and the ability to think, we have the ability to make those decisions. 


[ Parent ]
Everyone should have a choice (4.00 / 1)
None of us should be subjected to being forced to inject or eat a particular thing.  And our children should not be either.  My point is this - fluoride in our water is not necessary for good dental health.  Proper nutrition and flossing is much more key to good dental health.

I am not anti-vaccine. I am anti-poison.  I am anti-neurotransmitter in every darn thing we eat, drink, take as medicine, or inject as a vaccine. Take the toxic stuff out of the vaccines and don't give so many at one shot.  My stance is based on science and research over the course of 16 years. I didn't read this in a Good Housekeeping mag. Check out the Related Research page on my website for more data. 

I object vehemently to forcing someone to take something into their body that they do not want there.  Simply put, it is violating them.  It is violating their basic human rights.

One Vote. Yours. It really does matter.


[ Parent ]
Consequences (0.00 / 0)
You have taken this way beyond the discussion of the flu.  Your stance would have catastrophic consequences for public health.

What happens when get fatal diseases for which we have vaccines?  What then?  Just let them walk around and see how many people they can infect???  Lock them up and quarantine them???  Execute them and cremate them???  There are no "perfect" choices.  You are literally opening Pandora's Box.


[ Parent ]
Sorry, It's All Connected... (0.00 / 0)
....this is the nature of reality.  Of truth itself.

The world, much as some of us might wish, can not be reduced to simple black and white, statistical, quantitative discrete unconnected factors.

We live in a universe (thank God) in which things are qualitatively complex and values count at least as much as facts.

The toxicity of mercury, is well established.....if a kid is 24 months or 2 months or 36 months old isn't the point. 

RUSSIA, and Europe outlaw mercury; period.  Are the ignorant?  Are they stupid?  Are they irrational left wing savages?  Are the emotionally disturbed creatures dominated by delusional sentimentality?  I think not.

When we add the sharp/intelligent/informed angles that XT has brought to the table (along with the concerns expressed by Carol and others here):  This is a no brainer. 

I don't see how any parent of a toddler or preschooler or infant would opt for this voluntarily; but to make it MANDATORY is unsane.

My prediction: when the parents of the affected children become informed, they will become concerned...and they will become active.  This ain't over.


[ Parent ]
So, Nick, I'll ask the yes or no question: are you opposed to all mandatory vaccinations? If not, which ones will Dr. Lento consent to? (0.00 / 0)
By the way, did you catch up that the other vaccines (other than influenza) DON'T have mercury in them???  Or, do we need to repeat that another five or six times for you to absorb it past the blather????

[ Parent ]
Vaccinations can be good for you! (4.00 / 3)
The polio vaccine has virtually eliminated the disease--millions no longer die or are crippled by it.

I was a kid in NYC when someone infected with smallpox arrived on a plane and had contact with lots and lots of people before ultimately going to a hospital, where he died.  Lots of people were exposed.  Then-mayor LaGuardia insisted that every resident be vaccinated--we all were--and the feared epidemic was averted.

"The Hot Zone" is good and enlightening reading (sorry, I've  forgotten the author's name). 

And BTW, there's a new outbreak of Ebola in an African country now.  Given globalization and the vast number of people traveling by air all over the world, it's amazing that an Ebola epidemic hasn't happened here--but that has been due to quick and thorough research, quarantine, and cleanup of infected facilities. 

 

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."  (Teddy Roosevelt)


[ Parent ]
I agree (4.00 / 1)
some vaccinations are absolutely necessary.  But the flu vaccine isn't the same as polio vaccine.  There is ONE virus that causes polio, so when you get immunized, you are safe.  The flu vaccine changes every single year and there are multiple strains against which we have to guard, not to mention the largest threat to public safety posed by the flu is that a rogue virus mutates from another species and no one on earth has any resistance to it. 

You just can't vaccinate against the flu.  For some people, it makes a great deal of sense.  For the vast majority, better hygiene is better medicine than a vaccine.

To hell with what she wants, let's make Rosi Efthim the next DSC chair.


[ Parent ]
Richard Preston (0.00 / 0)
I just picked up "The Hot Zone" for 50 cents at a used book store on vacation in November. It's on my nightstand, 2 books away from being read.

[ Parent ]
And they can also be contaminated (0.00 / 0)
Witness the recall going on RIGHT NOW for Merck's vaccine.

One Vote. Yours. It really does matter.

[ Parent ]
Which can also happen with all sorts of medicines and foods, but we are still going to eat. n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Vaccines are wonderful ... (4.00 / 2)

but we have never mandated untested vaccines on babies and toddlers until the last 20 years when Big Pharm got into the picture.  It's not about vaccination.  It's about vaccinating kids at a developmental stage with chemicals we know very little about.  Babies should not be guinea pigs.  Doesn't the autism outbreak mean anything? 

-pb


[ Parent ]
Vaccine magic (4.00 / 1)
I'd need to be convinced that the vaccine makers had agreed not to base their formuations on use of mercury, and that their innoculations would not provoke low-grade illness, both matters of concern for anyone contemplating a non-necessary injection. I think the risk/reward is there for diseases like polio and pertussis, but don't really think our mortality rate from flu for preschoolers is at a level for this extreme response.

Pure Grain Alcohol and Branch Water ... (4.00 / 4)
that's what this thread needs.

Peace on Earth.

Purity of Essence.

Yours, Gen J.D. Ripper


scathing wit (4.00 / 2)
i just can't quit you dennis.

  • Jay_Lass on Twitter.

  • [ Parent ]
    Drinking Liberally I Presume :-) n/t (0.00 / 0)


    [ Parent ]
    Oh, well. Broke the blog again! :-D n/t (0.00 / 0)


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