Blue Jersey's Seventh Presidential Strawpoll

Straw polls (0.00 / 0)

I think it's too early to tell, and straw polling at this point is still really just more chatter to fill the space where discussion over policy should go. Clinton hasn't even unveiled the details of her healthcare plan, has she? All we really seem to know about the candidates is how much money they're raising. They snipe at each other over semantics, not substance.

At this time last election, didn't we all think Dean was a shoe-in?

---

by: tmchale @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 15:35:00 PM UTC

"Don't Know" (0.00 / 0)

That's why one of the poll options is "Don't Know". Some people do know, others don't. It's interesting to see over time how people make up their minds.

---

by: Juan Melli @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 16:01:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

My vote (0.00 / 0)

I actually voted Don't Know. Last month, I voted for Obama. He didn't lose me, nor did anyone else gain me, but 'Don't Know' is just more accurate for me today.

How did everyone else vote?

---

by: JRB @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 17:13:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

my vote (0.00 / 0)

I voted for Obama. I trust his judgment the most.

---

by: Juan Melli @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 17:23:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Obama's Judgment (0.00 / 0)

It would be interesting to have some examples of his good judgment or some indication of how you arrived at that conclusion.
Any real information on any of the candidates is useful.

---

by: billbrown201 @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 18:53:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Judgement (4.00 / 1)

I think you know how to find information on candidates. It's all over their websites, google news, other blogs, etc. I'm not using my editorial powers on Blue Jersey to advocate for any candidate, and I don't have any intention of doing that any time soon. But since you asked...

Obama spelled out exactly what would happen if we went into Iraq, and he was right. Even though he wasn't in the US Senate at the time, he opposed it at the time because he had the good judgment to know it was wrong on so many levels. The same can't be said about Clinton, Edwards, Richardson, Dodd or Biden. They eventually figured it out, thanks to the benefit of hindsight.

Considering how important foreign policy is and will continue to be, having proven good judgment on issues of war and peace is very important to me.

---

by: Juan Melli @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 19:13:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Pakistan (0.00 / 0)

I voted Kucinich and could support Edwards. I was on the fence with Obama, liked his promise to talk but thought he blew it with his comments on Pakistan recently. It made me wonder just how different of a politician he really is.

---

by: Hank Kalet @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 01:53:51 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Other (0.00 / 0)

My vote "Other" vote was for Gore.  Shameless plug to follow:

Draft Gore NJ

---

by: frailamerica @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 15:55:55 PM UTC

Me too! (0.00 / 0)

I checked the website and found a very sensible strategy--so I signed up.

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."  (Teddy Roosevelt)

---

by: DottieG @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 19:02:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Good Housekeeping Seal of Political Approval (0.00 / 0)

Welcome aboard, Dottie.

Your support is a major coup, possibly the relative equivalent to that of Steve Rothman endorsing Obama.  Before anyone accuses us of overstating the importance of a single statement of support, let me explain.

Draft Gore NJ's strategy is based on the belief that a small delegation of Gore supporters can have a great impact on the nominating process if no candidate wins the nomination on the first ballot.  If every state elects 1-2 Gore delegates, it would give us the 50-100 we need to possibly make a difference.

The respect that Dottie has earned through her work in her town, legislative district and beyond makes her reach in her delegate district second amongst our list of prospective delegate/alternate candidates only to the Draft Gore NJ movement's inspiration, Assembly Reed Gusciora.

Between Dottie and Reed, we are confident that the Draft Gore NJ slate has a great chance to elect at least two delegates to the Democratic National Convention in 2008 if not more.

---

by: Draft Gore NJ @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 15:24:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

voting preferences (4.00 / 6)

I'm surprised that other progressive activists aren't as enthralled as I with the Edwards candidacy thus far -- the most substantive universal health care plan, the best global warming initiatives thus far.  For me, his work is the most impressive of any Democrat in the field, and I voted for him and plan on doing everything possible to get him the nomination.

---

by: Martin @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 17:50:10 PM UTC

I am! (4.00 / 2)

He's the only one speaking consistantly about poverty, health care, labor, and TRADE, TRADE, TRADE (which is not a red-meat, sexy topic, but perhaps one of the most important ways to pull the US out of its downward, economic spiral).

I just don't know where Obama stands on these domestic issues and I feel he's a foreign policy rookie (despite his common sense stance on Iraq.  Guess what?  I said the same thing earlier than he did).

---

by: M. Sullivan @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 11:26:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Gimme a break... (3.60 / 5)

I just don't know where Obama stands on these domestic issues...

I'd like to ask everyone to please knock off this nonsense concern trolling.  You support Edwards.  Awesome.  I'm a big fan, myself.

But if you really don't know where any of these candidates stand on any given issue, that's your fault, not that candidate's.  Their websites all have fully fleshed-out issues pages, and all of them have voting records.

If anyone says, "but I just don't know where X stands on Y," they're either not telling the truth or not paying attention.

---

by: Scott Shields @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 15:58:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Boo. Hiss. (4.00 / 1)

I will be voting for no one in New Jersey's 2008 presidential primary since I no longer live in Jersey.

(I just felt the need to point out how unloved this poll made me feel...)

---

by: dennisl @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 18:08:16 PM UTC

Work for my vote (0.00 / 0)

Hillary Clinton  came to Elizabeth & surrounded herself with establishment suits. Gonna take lots more than that. For all of the contestants. 

---

by: Wesleylake @ Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 21:17:51 PM UTC

For the 1st Time I voted for Hillary (0.00 / 0)

And very soon I'm going to formally endorse her. Was invited to her campaign HQ in DC, where her campaign actually acceded to my request to not only clarify one of her position papers, but put it up on her website for all to see.

Wow, they actually did it! Among the candidates, only she and Dennis Kucinich now have something in common re supporting transgender rights and putting it up on their website.

If she can respond to me, you know damned well that I'll respond to her! It also says something very positive about her, her staffers and advisers! Hillary in 2008!

Barbra Casbar Siperstein

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

---

by: Babs NJSD @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 02:50:25 AM UTC

It's true (0.00 / 0)

Senator Clinton is not my first choice, but it's undeniable that her campaign is a top-notch operation whose responsiveness is second-to-none.  They really have perfected the art of making everyone -- at least grasstops like ourselves -- feel like an integral part of her campaign.  Every campaign should learn from them.

---

by: Scott Shields @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 16:01:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Could you point the way (0.00 / 0)

I'm searching Hillary's site, but can't find anything on transgender rights.

---

by: Jeff Gardner @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 20:20:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hillary's web page on lgbt issues (0.00 / 0)

http://www.hillarycl...

Regarding the other top tier candidates, Edwards has nothing on the website, Obama didn't even give LGBT Democrats the right time of day when he had a great opportunity in March.

I'm old fashioned, I like to see things in writing and Hillary did it! 

Has she come a long way since I first saw her in my LGBT vision in the Spring of 2001?
Absolutely! The fact that she has evolved and is able to move forward on rights for "ALL" LGBT people says a lot about her and her ability to learn and to go forward to lead ALL Americans.

Barbra Casbar Siperstein

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

---

by: Babs NJSD @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 02:25:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks for the link Babs (0.00 / 0)

It is very nearly impossible to find starting from the HRC homepage, but you are right that it is great once you find it. I don't think you are being fair, however, in your criticism of other candidates.

Here are some links to the nothing you missed on Edwards' website:

On don't ask, don't tell, on civil unions, on hate crimes, and on Bush's recent surgeon general nominee, all of which I found quite easily on the Edwards site.

There are also many references to GLBT supporters and such here, here, and here.

---

by: Jeff Gardner @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 14:20:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Edwards says nothing about ENDA (0.00 / 0)

First of all, I'm familiar with his web pages and certainly some of his gay supporters. Eric Stern is a friend and one who has been a personal supporter. Stephen Handwerk is a dear friend and wonderful upcoming national GLBT leader who I encourage whenever I can. I've met and admired several others as well.
... and of course this fellow Gardner from NJ, he's a decent sort!

Very seriously, Edwards speaks nothing about ENDA, the transgender inclusive Employment Non Discrimination Act. This, as was the NJ LAD, extremely important to me and all LGBT people who live in fear of losing or not getting jobs. In a sense, this is a necessity of life while marriage may arguably be called a luxury in comparison.

I was flattered to be approached by several supporters of Hillary, both gay and straight, but when a gay paper reported that her support on the transgender inclusion in ENDA was questionable. Her campaign denied that, and showed me a position paper, which was  honestly  a bit unclear.

I asked them to clarify it and put it on their website for all to see!  they did it!

Her campaign didn't pussy foot, and I'm impressed that they are willing to stand up for ALL the GLBT community. She can say, "transgender". She now has not one but two transgender people on her LGBT steering committee.

Does she have guts? She certainly shows common sense and the strength of conviction to go with it! That is why I support her.

Barbra Casbar Siperstein

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

---

by: Babs NJSD @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 15:42:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Every Dem Candidate supports ENDA (0.00 / 0)

As you no doubt already know, every democratic candidate for president is on record as supporting both the transgender-inclusive ENDA legislation and the transgender-inclusive hate crimes law, including, of course, John Edwards.

We can all support different candidates of our choosing - and it is wonderful that you were able to get the Clinton camp to clarify its positions (after Edwards had) - but, I don't think it was fair to say, as you did earlier, "Edwards has nothing on the website" re "lgbt issues."

xoxo

---

by: Jeff Gardner @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 16:15:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

p.s. (0.00 / 0)

Anyone following along on this thread should watch tomorrow night at 9p the Human Rights Campaign's presidential forum on issues of importance to the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community.

The event will be broadcast live on the Logo cable network and will be webcast live at LOGOonline.com.

---

by: Jeff Gardner @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 16:24:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Stonewall Democrats Debate Party Tonite (4.00 / 1)

Join NJ Stonewall Democrats for a Debate Watching Party

Join NJ Stonewall Democrats for a LOGO debate party. It will be the Democratic candidates debating on LGBTI issues. The party will beThe Melrose Bed and Breakfast, starting at 7:30pm (the debate starts at 9pm).
We are asking for $10pp and will order pizza and have soda. People can BYOB.

What: NJ Stonewall Democrats debate watching party
When: Thursday Aug. 9 at 7:30 pm
Where: The Melrose Bed and Breakfast, 34 Seaview Avenue, Ocean Grove, NJ 07756
Contact: (732) 774-5404 · 800-378-9004

 

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

---

by: Babs NJSD @ Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 21:44:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

p.p.s. - Edwards on ENDA (0.00 / 0)

You and me make a great team Babs - I made your concerns known, and less than 24 hours later:

John Edwards on the Rights Of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgendered Americans

---

by: Jeff Gardner @ Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 18:36:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

back and forth (4.00 / 1)

I keep going back and forth, but so far I'm sticking with Edwards. But sometimes I get excited about the idea of Hillary. First woman, the added plus of Bill as "ambassador" to the world, etc. I even like Obama. Franlky I'd be happy in the end if any one of them was our next President. In terms of smarts and integrity and being right on the issues, anyone of them is superior to who is running on the other side. Edward's message about the poor and his wife's stance on behalf of gays is the main reason why I am with him right now, but I could be swayed.

---

by: lil @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 17:44:17 PM UTC

My Vote (0.00 / 0)

I think this is the first of the straw polls I voted in, and my vote, as it would have been from the very beginning, is for Senator Clinton.

It's  all about picking a candidate with the experience to lead our nation and represent us on the world stage, we have no time for 'on-the-job learning'.

The decision really is a simple one.

I would predict, and I'm sure it's not earth shattering news, that we will see more out of President Clinton's Adminsitration in the first 100 days than in any other comparable time frame in our nation's history.

---

by: stevelenox @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 17:49:23 PM UTC

on the job learning (0.00 / 0)

This 'on the job learning' thing almost sounds like people are projecting Clinton's weaknesses onto other candidates.

You can't seriously say there's no time for 'on the job learning', can you? You're supporting someone who learned the hard way that it was a really stupid idea to invade a country that never attacked us. Most people think that's 'common sense' and don't require that kind of 'on the job learning'. All the experience in the world couldn't keep her from getting it completely wrong.

---

by: Juan Melli @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 18:10:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

OJL OJT Whatever the label (0.00 / 0)

Juan,
Of course there is always on the job learning!
But I think the point that Steve was making is the experience factor, not only for her personally, but also in her staff, as well which does in fact make a great selling point for her.

At her headquarters last week, we were briefed by her communications director, Ann Lewis and other extremely competent senior staff who had been with her since the nineties.

Are there any guarantees? No, but the chances of any rookie mistakes would, logically, be substantially diminished with her experience and that of her staff.

Its a different story, of course, if you speak directly to a higher authority and you naturally make no "misteaks", ever!

Babs Casbar

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

---

by: Babs NJSD @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 03:40:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Doesn't this just reinforce Juan's point? (0.00 / 0)

So, not only did Hillary make the wrong choice on Iraq, but she promises to bring along with her the entire team of people who were part of that decision? Hmmm.

There are countless reasons to vote for Hillary Clinton - the experience of her insider staff is not one of them.

---

by: Jeff Gardner @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 15:48:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No it doesn't (0.00 / 0)

The President and his cabal lied! Hindsight is 20/20. who would have predicted in 2003 that this Bush would be the complete disaster he is? Worst President in history!
He makes Nixon look like a saint!

Edwards is perfect? He couldn't out debate Cheney in 2004. Made Dr. Death look not only human but at one point a bit of a sympathetic character.

Puleeeeze, gimme a break!

let's work on the positive and keep making our candidates better!

oxox

Babs

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

---

by: Babs NJSD @ Fri Aug 10, 2007 at 06:24:46 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I reject that notion (4.00 / 1)

The President and his cabal lied! Hindsight is 20/20.

There was plenty of reason not to buy into the President's proposal to authorize force in October 2002. More Democrats should have been like Bob Graham and taken the time to weigh the facts of the case -- especially because of the Bush Administration's rush to war.

As a friend of mine closer to the action put it, Washington was wondering how soon -- not whether -- the President would take us to war in Iraq. All the anti-war energy I had was pretty much sapped as soon as that vote occurred. (And I have always shared -- even when I actively opposed the invasion -- the "we broke it, we bought it" mentality, so I have mixed feelings about a withdrawal from Iraq today.)

Sadly, too many made political considerations the prime motivator in such a momentous decision. To say the President fooled them is a cop out, and dare I say it, a bold-faced lie. I was 18 years old, not into conspiracy theories and even I could see the case was not there and that the President was determined to have war.

---

by: JRB @ Fri Aug 10, 2007 at 15:15:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You certainly have the right to that opinion (0.00 / 0)

Personally I had very strong doubts about WMD, but thought they knew what they were doing and had a deal to get more oil to fill our ravenous appetites for the black gold.

Yes, having been once  been among them, I'm extremely cynical.  If Iraq really had WMDs I would assume Israel would know... for them it is literally survival.

But to call it a cop-out, neither you nor I are in position to really know. ... so call it as you see it.  who will judge you? History?

That being said, when you look at all the candidates, and certainly it was reinforced in the last two debates, the AFL-CIO in Chicago and the HRC-LOGO last night, Senator Clinton, all in all, showed she had the "right stuff".

Perfect? No (whatever that means), but head and shoulders above the rest ... yes!

Barbra Casbar Siperstein

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

---

by: Babs NJSD @ Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 00:38:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

re: Your Prediction (1.00 / 1)

"I would predict, and I'm sure it's not earth shattering news, that we will see more out of President Clinton's Adminsitration in the first 100 days than in any other comparable time frame in our nation's history."

So Steve, when you suck up like this, does it hurt your lips?  It seems like it would, just from the sheer intensity of it.

But seriously, what do you base this on?  It reads like a parody, it's so ridiculous.  Do you really think the "important" people backing Clinton are now going to give you any more respect because of this?  I highly doubt they care.

---

by: Somewhere In The Swamps @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 02:59:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

This seems a little harsh to me. (0.00 / 0)

---

by: Jeff Gardner @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 15:50:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

experience (0.00 / 0)

It boggles my mind every time I hear a Clinton supporter tout her experience as a selling point.  I have nothing against First Ladies and Hillary Clinton could be ranked alongside Eleanor Roosevelt as one of our country's most active, effective, and efficacious ones, but I don't necessarily believe that this kind of experience is applicable towards being President of the United States.

In fact, the only experience that she had as First Lady that could and should be used to judge her ability to be President was an unmitigated disaster, and while many people can be blamed for the debacle that the Clinton health care effort was, the buck has to stop at Hillary.

Single-payer universal health care would not have required a 1400 page document, but because the Clinton administration was so poll-driven, they were unwilling to try anything that could be called "socialized medicine", despite the fact that the mess that they produced wound up being called that anyway.

As far as I am concerned, there is not a significant difference experiencewise between the three front-runners: Clinton, Edwards, and Obama.  Compared to adults like Biden and Richardson, they are children.  Unfortunately, these adults don't appear to have a chance in hell of winning the Democratic nomination.  The only "adult" who could possibly change the current electoral calculus is Al Gore.

I would predict, and I'm sure it's not earth chattering news, that if a Democrat is elected President in 2008, we will see more out of his/her first 100 days than in any other comparable time frame in our nation's history.  We had better.  Eight years of Bush/Cheney have done so much damage on so many fronts that the only hope for our nation and world is immediate, decisive, and effective action.

I don't doubt that any of the candidates currently running with the exception of Gravel and Kucinich are capable of this, but there is no doubt in my mind that there are some who are more capable than others.  Clinton and Edwards are the least capable in my opinion.  Biden and Richardson are the most capable.  Obama and Dodd are question marks.

The only no-brainer is Gore (and Howard Dean, of course, but I think that we all know for a fact that he is not running - Damn you, Howard, for having principles).

---

by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 13:58:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This seems a little long to me. (4.00 / 1)

(for a comment)

---

by: Jeff Gardner @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 15:51:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Capital Hill Blue Weighs In (0.00 / 0)

Here is a link to an interesting and informative article in the blog Capital Hill Blue:

http://www.capitolhi...

If issues are important, this nails them.

---

by: billbrown201 @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 22:01:17 PM UTC

Time for Blue Jersey to Endorse Edwards for '08? (0.00 / 0)

Perhaps I'm overestimating the influence of Blue Jersey amongst the party faithful (in actuality, probably not, knowing the site's influence), but perhaps it is time that, despite our invididual differences, we, on some level, formally endorse former Sen. John Edwards for president in '08.

Edwards has won seven straw poll elections in a row and did so in the latest round by getting over 4 out of every 10 votes.  If this continues, I'm wondering whether our site -- which is the online equivalent to a union or other organization which democratically votes -- should move forward at some point with an endorsement. Juan, Jay, and Brian, the Blue Jersey braintrust, could, of course, individually endorse whomever they choose.

---

by: Martin @ Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 19:12:20 PM UTC

no endorsement (0.00 / 0)

To my knowledge, Blue Jersey has never endorsed any candidate and we have no plans to start doing so.

---

by: Juan Melli @ Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 19:32:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wise Policy (0.00 / 0)

This is a forum for dialogue, we can spar and argue for our candidates and toughen up and hone our fighting skills, but in the end we must come together and fight for the Democratic candidate.

To create a divisive climate on BJ will help only the Republicans.

I will support any one of the Democrats as vastly superior to any of the reality denying Republicans!

Barbra Casbar Siperstein

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

---

by: Babs NJSD @ Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 02:27:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]