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A Voters Concern Regarding the Printers for the Sequoia Voting Machines

by: Ann R

Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:43:30 PM EST



New Jersey is in the process of testing and buying printers for the Sequoia touch screen voting machines that were purchased in 2005 to comply with the Help America Vote Act- sponsored by non other than Bob Ney of Ohio. In the rush to buy these machines we may have not selected the best kind.  It is crucial that the State get a secure reliable voting system because this is how we deliver democracy to the people.

We need to know if the printers are working well and will not break down constantly. We need to know that the VVPT (voter verified paper trail) is legible and well designed; A large sample voters, from all walks of life, should review sample VVPTs and see if the design is clear and easy to understand. We need to know that there will be sufficient audits of the VVPT to ensure that paper tallies correspond to machine tallies. And we need to have good protocols for the storing and delivering of the machines and for how election workers should proceed if fraud is suspected.

New Jersey should also use the experience of other states as a guide. In Feb. 2007 Gov. Crist (FL) announced plans to abandon the touch-screen voting machines bought in 2002, to adopt instead a statewide system of casting paper ballots counted by optical scanners. In Mar. 2006, Gov. Richardson (NM) signed a bill requiring optical scan, saying "Paper ballots serve as the ultimate back-up for our elections, providing secure and permanent verification of the will of the people."

If Sequoia is unable to produce a reliable printer for the VVPT on their touch screen machines we should consider a switch to a paper ballot optical scan system. Other states have abandoned these machines fearing for the security of their elections.  Or if we have enough confidence in the Sequoia with the new printer we might consider the example of Virginia: This month Virginia passed a bill to phase out the machines as they wear out, and replace them with optical scanners.

Over half of American voters already cast paper ballots read by optical scanners. The technology is secure. It's accurate. It's accessible. It's verifiable. And it's cost-effective. Voters must have confidence that their vote has been accurately recorded and counted and that election results can be examined and confirmed. The State of New Jersey must do everything possible to provide these guarantees.

We may be better off if we adopt a single statewide system using paper ballots, precinct based optical scanners, and accessible ballot marking devices. Along with auditing protocols for verifying that the optical scanner count conforms to the count of paper ballots. And a bi-partisan approved system for ballot design and protocols for storing and transferring the optical scan machines as well as procedures for the detection of fraud.

Ann R :: A Voters Concern Regarding the Printers for the Sequoia Voting Machines
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Just some facts (0.00 / 0)
New Jersey is in the process of testing and buying printers for the Sequoia touch screen voting machines that were purchased in 2005

IIRC Bergen County was the first county in NJ to purchase Sequoia Advanatge voting machines (DRE or direct recording electronic), about 17yrs ago. The Sequoia Advantage is not a touch screen, it uses mechanical push buttons. IIRC only one county, Salem, use the Sequoia touchscreen, the Edge.

If Sequoia is unable to produce a reliable printer for the VVPT on their touch screen machines

Sequoia offers the touchscreen, the EDGE witha $500 VVPB printer. Sequoia has quoted the price of a printer for the Advantage as being $2000, because the hardware cannot support a printer, this requires a major re-design. Please dont use the term VVPT, paper trail doesnt exist in law dictionaries, paper ballot does. See Holts HR 811.

Over half of American voters already cast paper ballots read by optical scanners.

I doubt it, I'll look it up.

The technology is secure.

Harry Hursti hacked the Diebold Opscanner, remember? The Sequoia opscanner is the same machine. Optech Eagle series.

It's accurate.

Actually the computer in the scanner needs to be adjusted properly or else it doesnt count right.
Since an oscanner feeds results into the same PC based tabulator as any other DRE, no. And they are proven to be hacked.

It's accessible.

No, without the Marksense ballot marker, which only works with the ES&S opscanner, opscanners do not meet HAVA mandated accessibility standards, not by a long shot.

It's verifiable.

Since an opscanner can be mis calibrated, just as a touchscreen can, it needs a VVPB printer too, to check against the tabulator counts.

 

And it's cost-effective

Correct, An opscanner costs about $5000. A DRE cots $3500 to $6000. OPscanners can process up to 360 ballots per hour, DRE's can process up to 20 ballots per hour.(full face designs, small face designs only 6/hour).

Heres a movie that covers the Sequoia Advantage, Avante Trakker, and the Liberty.

http://fogerrox.blip...

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


Sequoia touchscreen (0.00 / 0)
we definitely use Sequoia touchscreens in Salem County, so your memory is doing good!


Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

[ Parent ]
He he he, memory, sometimes I think I have dementia, but thanks. (0.00 / 0)
The Edge DRE....about a 15" screen, on spindly shiny metal legs.....

Set so the screen is on an angle, facing the voter.

With a large ballot, like in 2004, you had to scroll thru many pages to complete your voting thru to the last down ticket race. Then procede to the review section. Very time comsuming.

I called David Letterman to ask him if he had a bit called

"know your NJ Voting equipment."

/snark

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
yep, that's it (0.00 / 0)
There are an awful lot of screens.  At least it does warn you if you miss a race.



Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch


[ Parent ]
Holy undervote Batman..... (0.00 / 0)
/snark

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

[ Parent ]
I understand... (0.00 / 0)
That there is a company down in Princeton, run by former AT%T people, that make a very fine and very secure voting machine, one based on Linux.

Why is a proven, insecure machine like Sequoia getting all the play?

The nom de plume has a long and distinguished history.


[ Parent ]
Thats Avante. See my 1st post for the link to the movie (0.00 / 0)
The Avant Vote Trakker

30" large ballot face touchscreen.

Drop & cut VVPB printer


Drop & cut VVPB printer

These pix were taking during a tour of the Princeton Avante factory. Summer of '05. Yes the Trakker uses Linux, but the tabulator uses Windows.

In considering other DRE's...Open Source is not the issue. Proprietary software is where the ballots are kept. Only an agent of the Corporation can look at Proprietary software/ballots. But yet federal law says citizens can look at the ballots, but we can't because the ballots are imbedded in Proprietary software.

TS, NJ is a Sequoia state. YOu would have to ask former AG Peter Harvey and his ex cheif of staff Marcus GReen, they pushed the last few counties to go Sequoia under HAVA.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
more facts please (0.00 / 0)
Foger/Roger(?)

are the Essex county sequoia machines DRE- touch screen machines? what are they? have they designed the printer for the sequoia advantage yet? who has seen it ? what do the printed vote receipts look like? how do they drop into a box? how would they be counted? do you have acess to this inf?

  I know the op scan ballot counters are hackable hence the audits. I believe they are precinct local and t/4 slightly more time consuming and troublesome to hack. I have read this  but I do not fully understand it.

black box voting/Bev Harris makes a big distinction between VVPT and ballots. ballots are created by the voter not a receipt of the vote made on a voting machine. they think Holt has it wrong in HR811.

Ann


[ Parent ]
Ann Yes, Essex bought the Sequoia Advantage last yr. (0.00 / 0)
Sequoia started showing their new DRE last summer. They signed with a Long Island firm, who will provide Sequoia with the touchscreens. I don't believe Sequoia has any intention of ever producing a VVPB printer for the Advantage DRE, its 20+ yrs old based on 30 yr old tech. Sequoia is going to be interested in selling its new DRE.

YOur other questions are answered in my 1st post.

I would just add that if a law is written with terms that dont not use legal accepted terms, those laws tend to be overturned in court. So in that spirit, lets use VVPB.

Andy Stephanson always made that point, along with Lynn Landes and Rebecca Mercuri. And there at least 13 states laws that dont use the term reciept, or paper trial, none of those laws have been overturned.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
You shouldn't... (0.00 / 0)
...be allowed to know that much about voting systems.
Golly.

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

[ Parent ]
I think thats a compliment, thanks (0.00 / 0)
I am part of a national coalition. We hang out here:
http://www.democrati...

We share info and news. Plus google is your friend.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
Sequoia Machines Can Be Tampered With. (0.00 / 0)
That has been proven.  Unfortunately, we need to throw them all in the garbage ASAP!  In my town, in November, machines were compromised!  There was a 700 "Undervote" for one office.  That means someone "TAMPERED" with the machines!  We need to revert to paper!  This has happened over and over again, in town after town, all over our country.  What is the problem with our NJ politicians?

I would offer that all E-voting machines can't count. (0.00 / 0)
Tampering? Or do you mean hacking.

Ya see I know a fair bit about how these machines are built, the parts that go into them. How they are designed. They cant count, they breakdown and there is no notice of the breakdown, like something as simple as a red light.

I think hacking is rare. BUT you dont have to hack to change the outcome. Some DRE's have a wide range of operating paramaters dependant on calibration or maintenence. In other words if you take care of them they work marginally, if not they suck.

Notice the ES&S iVotronic's in FL-13, where Christine Jennings lost 18k votes, those machines sucked, there were plenty of documented problems. Its more than possible that poorly maintained & calibrated machines were at fault.
Which just happened only in the Strongest DEM county in FL-13. Just a coincidence, I am sure.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
These Were Hacked, Roger! (0.00 / 0)
I was a "Poll Worker," and I am sure they were Hacked!!!  It was Berkeley Heights, Union County, and more than those "irregularities" took place.  I volunteered to be a "Pollworker for Democracy," and it was a very special election.  Our town is crooked, and our county is crooked!  We were having a "write-in" mayoral candidate, because he declared too late, having found out some "dirt" too late to declare early enough to be put on the ballot.  I wanted to be there, and I saw all kinds of things.  So did pollworkers in every district.  We wrote it up, and sent our finding to state and federal officials.  NOTHING!  (I sent 2 letters to our esteemed NJ Attorney General).  NOTHING! 700 people do not vote for senator, and not vote for mayor, the most important election in town, for all kinds of reasons!  600 people do not vote for congressman, and not vote for mayor, the most important election in town in years!  Something is "fishy" in Denmark!

There is much more, but I will leave it until later.  Suffice it to say, the machines were "Hacked!"


[ Parent ]
Can we campare the Voting machine end of voting counts to the tabulator counts? (0.00 / 0)
I remember this happening. There is a cadre of researchers in NJ, I am one. DO you know Rebecca Mercuri or Irene Goldman? Or any one else in the Princeton area?

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.

[ Parent ]
No, I don't know them, but (0.00 / 0)
my machines matched the tabulator count on election night, however, when the votes in town were counted in their entirety, there was an "Undervote." Approximately,  700 people who voted for senator, did not vote for mayor.  Approximately, 600 people who voted for congressman, did not vote for mayor.  Something is not right about that!  Why won't our State Attorney General look into this?  Not only is he IGNORING our case, but he did not even have the decency to answer my 2 letters to him, which I was told in December were in the "Legal Department." This was an extremely contentious election.  We have a Democratic County, run by Manager George Devanney, the nephew of State Senator Raymond Lesniak, and Mr. Devanney's wife is the "Administrator" of our Republican-dominated and corrupt township government.  The county Democrats did not want ANY other candidate to run against our Republican mayor!  Neither did they want any Democrats to run for the Town Council  When several Democrats did run, they received absolutely NO support, monetary or otherwise from the County Democratic Party. 

An "Independent Republican Reform candidate" declared himself, only it was too late for him to get his name placed on the ballot, and thus, he became a "write-in" candidate.  The regular Republican (and former mayor) of course won.  The polls were chaotic, however, and many rules were broken.  The Union County Board of Elections were not helpful, despite my calls to them on that day.  They would not assist me, as a poll worker.  Something needs to be done, but I don't know where to turn.  I wrote to Black Box Voting, and they have my information.

A few weeks ago, Union County Democratic Manager George Devanney, himself, was appointed to our Planning Board by our Republican mayor.  The town and county have been "intertwined" in an extremely "cozy" relationship, and this "undervote" was meaningful.  Other "irregularities" occurred at the polls on that day, and everything was written up and sent to state and federal officials.  Not only has nothing been done, but nothing has been mentioned, or of course been written up in our very local Republican and "Censor-Prone" "Independent Press" newspaper!


[ Parent ]
OK so 700 votes (0.00 / 0)
In what size jurisdiction?

Precinct? Ward? township?

In other words 700 votes of ?

700 out of 12,000 ?

700 out of 2,300 ?

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
Total Number Who Voted, (0.00 / 0)
and who voted for senator, were 5,019.  Voting for mayor, were 4287.  Total number who voted for congressperson, was 4,833. If the mayoral election had not been such a big thing, I would not have been concerned, but it was very big.  That is main reason I volunteered to be a poll worker.  The other reason was, because I wanted to participate in the "Pollworkers for Democracy" project.

[ Parent ]
Hold on, you said there was a write in candidate? (0.00 / 0)
How many people started using the write in feature & had to reset the hand held write in feature, because they typed in a wrong letter, or for whatever reason, miss spelling? , needed to change what they entered, before finishing voting?

And if you saw this process occur, exactly what was done to facilitate changing an entry on the write in feature before finishing voting.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
Part of the Problem (0.00 / 0)
was that there were so-called "Challengers" who tried, in EVERY possible way, to PREVENT a "write-in" vote from even occurring in the first place.  This included "Illegal" activities, such as sitting behind the desk with poll workers, speaking to voters, and disrupting the process in every possible way they could possibly think of!  There was even a man who was dressed up to look like an "official" from the Union County Board of Elections, and who went from district to district saying he WAS such an "official," making up changes in rules regarding what was and was not proper in "writing-in" a vote.  Rules changed all throughout the day, and we were told of these changes by phone, apparently from the Board of Elections, and from the "Supervisor of Poll Workers."  On one occasion, we were even told that the Attorney General had just changed a ruling.  After the election, there was no indication of such a ruling EVER having taken place!  It was pure chaos!

For those who did attempt to "write-in" their vote, it was a very difficult process, and there was only 1 set of directions in my polling place, and it was not clearly written.  Challengers prevented poll workers from helping voters with their "write-in" votes, as we had learned to do in class, and Board of Elections officials would NOT come to our rescue, when we called them to report these facts!


[ Parent ]
What I am leading to is this (0.00 / 0)
If you miss spell when entering a name using the write in feature, the Advantage must be re-booted. There is no clear or backspace capability when voting a write in candidate.

SO really what I was getting to is, how many times were Sequoia Advanatges re-booted? I think you see the implications.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
In My District, At Least, (0.00 / 0)
not at all, but that could not have been the problem for approximately 600-700 votes.  I do know that they re-booted one vote in the other district that was in my polling place, but that was only one.  And then there were all the other irregularities, and downright illegalities that occurred! 

[ Parent ]
Roger, Did You Forget (0.00 / 0)
about this post?  I was looking forward to your comments.

[ Parent ]
I thought I might have had some insight as to what happened (0.00 / 0)
When I remembered about... if you want to change a write in vote, you must reboot the Advantage. But I was wrong.

It may be that without a forensic investigation, it would be really tuff to figure out exactly what happened.

What race would have had different results if the 700 votes had been included? Which race does the 700 votes make a difference as to who wins?

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
This was the race for (0.00 / 0)
mayor, Roger.  It was not in the newspapers at all.  There was a recount, with no real change, of course.  "Garbage in....garbage out!"  We had a town hall meeting, but no one put anything in the papers.  The mayoral candidate got everything in writing from all witnesses and sent it to state and federal officials, and in December, I wrote to the NJ Attorney General (TWICE)!  We have heard nothing!

[ Parent ]
did this story of suspected hacking get any press in NJ? (0.00 / 0)
could you direct me to a news paper article regarding your story? It sounds like the same story that happened in Hispanic and Native American communities in New Mexico. They had lots of under votes until they switched from e-voting to paper ballot/op scan. See article :

Undervote Rate Plummets in Minority Precincts After New Mexico Changes to All Paper Ballots 

By VotersUnite.org 
February 26, 2007
link to:
http://www.newscloud...


[ Parent ]
There is no real comparison (0.00 / 0)
The problem in New Mexico was state wide. The 700 votes was at the municiple level. And is separate from the (NJ)state level of undervotes by machine type, which would be comparable to the NEw Mexico issue.

We know what causes what happened in NEw Mexico, it happens nation wide... where ever DRE's are used, its because DRE's can't count.

And the 700 votes vanishing was most likely not the result of hacking, tampering.... yes. There is a difference.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
in NM it was Native American and Hispanic populations w. u/v. (0.00 / 0)
As per the article I sited above, in NM it was Native Americans and Hispanics and not the Caucasian populations that had the under vote.  If all machines cant count they should all not count at the same rate- regardless of precinct, no?
what is the best bet for  voting machines in your opinion? Liberty?

[ Parent ]
snark HR 2600, paper. (0.00 / 0)
DIdnt New Mexico use the Sequoia Edge? The non english versions cant count worse than normal.

If....
  I had to pick a DRE it would be the Avante Vote trakker.

Lever machines and opscanners have about a 1% undervote rate. Best in the business.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
voting machines in NM 2004 (0.00 / 0)
I found "scoop" site thru google:
http://www.scoop.co....

these are there results for New Mexicos undervote  in Native Amercian precincts:

sequoia advantage: 9.10%, Danaher Shouptronic: 8%, ES+S I votetronic: 1.54%


[ Parent ]
another site for more NM inf 2004 elections (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
Mike is good people. (0.00 / 0)
"sequoia advantage: 9.10%"

That is just stunning all by itself.

Check out my 3 paragraph primer on Polywell Fusion.


[ Parent ]
Please see previous response (0.00 / 0)
to Roger, Ann.  There was no press in NJ.  Our local newspaper is corrupted, and no one wanted to "tip" anyone off, actually.  The only story was about the "recount."

[ Parent ]
pls direct me to the recount story (0.00 / 0)
Krose
please let me know where I can read the recount story.

The press really hates these stories. I spoke to  a NJ reporter and he said that there  was little interest in voting machine stories. 

And, I have noticed, when voting irregularities are covered, Sarasota Fla. for instance,  there is never any angle on possible wrong doing or wrong doers, which would give the story more interest/excitement etc.


[ Parent ]
Ann R., For "Recount Story," You can go to: (0.00 / 0)
www.nj.com/forums/berkeleyheights/index.ssf?exlink?artid=4025

The title of the article is, "Cohen Still Winner After Township Vote Recount." 
by Mike Neavill

Some of the "facts" in this article are distorted, and were taken from only one side!


[ Parent ]
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