Senator Fred Madden: the WORST Democrat in Trenton

He voted against collective bargaining (4.00 / 1)

And - he joined the Republicans in voting to eliminate the right for 500,000 workers to collectively bargain healthcare.

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by: Hetty Rosenstein @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 12:49:15 PM UTC

I pray that Senate President Sweeney.... (0.00 / 0)

and Majority Leader Weinberg can whip Madden into shape for the new session. It's a good test of their leadership to keep the caucus in line on core party principles. Besides, we all love a redemption story and I'll be here to tell it if/when it happens to Madden.  

activist for hire.

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by: Jay Lassiter @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 12:58:59 PM UTC

Who do you think... (4.00 / 1)

...made Madden as terrible as he is?  You know as well as anybody that Madden is a puppet, Sweeney pulls his strings, and George Norcross pulls Sweeney's strings.  You can pray as much as you want, but Sweeney is the last guy who is going to make Madden vote more progressively and ML Weinberg has enough on her plate without having to deal with the likes of Madden.

How did your Senator vote on these issues?  Any better?  You also know as well as anybody that the only thing that will produce progressive change amongst Christiecrats like James Beach and Madden is their replacement with progressive alternatives.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 19:26:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

There are worse "Democrats" than Madden (3.00 / 1)

See Stack, Brian, for one.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 13:25:57 PM UTC

that may be true... (0.00 / 0)

...but i actually cited examples why I chose Madden which you did not do in with your choice of Stack. And since Brian Stack is pro-Gay rights + anti- death penalty and supports a proper needle exchange, he simply doesn't register on my shit-list the way Madden does.

Of course I live in South Jersey, so proximity counts too I guess.  

activist for hire.

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by: Jay Lassiter @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 14:17:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"Hardly anyone" lives in LD4? (3.00 / 1)

Four principal municipalities in LD4:
Washington Twp, pop. 49K
Gloucester Twp, pop. 65K
Monroe Twp, pop. 32K
Winslow Twp, pop. 40K
plus a handful of smaller towns which bring the population of LD4 to approximately 200K, which may not seem like much to you, but it matters to the people whio live here.
Please do your homework before you make a dismissive statement like that.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 16:25:06 PM UTC

oh snap! (0.00 / 0)

well i am glad you can add, Jeff.  now divide that modest total by the square mileage of Madden's district and you'll come up with the lowest population density in New Jersey. by far.

I apologize if the remark rubbed you the wrong way, but if i were you, I'd do my math homework before telling someone else to to their homework.

activist for hire.

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by: Jay Lassiter @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 16:36:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What does population density have to do with anything? (0.00 / 0)

I'm no fan of Fred Madden either, but that's no reason to insult the people in his district, or me personally.  

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 19:41:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

yawn (0.00 / 0)

if i insulted you by telling you do do your homework, Jeff, perhaps you should have resisted the urge to tell me to do my homework.

In the context of his barrenly populated district, I think pointing out population density had plenty to do with it.

If you feel comfortable farting and walking out of the room, don't feign surprise and insult when someone does the same to you.

but thanks just the same for your comments, it's refreshing to see a lively debate around here.

activist for hire.

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by: Jay Lassiter @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 21:47:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Jay (0.00 / 0)

Do not lecture me on math. I know my math just fine, thank you.

Perhaps you should consider how your incendiary language is perceived  and do some proofreading before you hit the "Save" button.

By calling Madden "a backbencher politician who represents the part of New Jersey that hardly anyone lives", you are implying that his district is sparsely populated in comparison to other districts, which is factually inaccurate, and that his constituents don't matter as much as residents of other districts.

Criticize Madden all you want, but do not dismissively insult the people who live here.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 00:04:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

So let me get this straight..... (0.00 / 0)

....you live in a district represented by a man who votes against gays, unions and gun control but it's my tenor that bothers you?

activist for hire.

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by: Jay Lassiter @ Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 14:23:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think... (0.00 / 0)

...that what Jeff is saying is that your diatribe against Madden is old news but that any and all disparaging remarks should be limited to him and not the people in the district, who don't have real choices.

I also think that this diary and thread is particularly obnoxious, coming from someone who has told others to "work their side of the street".  Beach is no better than Madden on these issues and he represents a far more Democratic district.

The fact of the matter is that instead of beating each other up, you guys should be organizing a progressive alternative to the Norcross machine in South Jersey.  I think that Jeff is up for that.  Are you, Jay?

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 18:58:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Progressive Alternative (0.00 / 0)

I think there will be 1 or more progressive alternatives to the Norcross machine in South Jersey in the next election cycle and, quite likely, beyond. There is a palpable restlessness among some in the progressive community to challenge the staus quo.  

Tom SW

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by: TomSW @ Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 19:48:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

how is it old news... (0.00 / 0)

This diary came within hours of Madden voting against a needle exchange program in New Jersey. that was just a few short days ago. So maybe the pattern is old news, Bertin, but I think the reaction to the needle exchange bill was rather timely.

activist for hire.

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by: Jay Lassiter @ Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 14:36:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

My point was... (0.00 / 0)

...that Jeff and the others here are well aware of how bad Madden is, but that fact doesn't justify you disparaging Jeff and Madden's other constitutents, just as you would not want to be disparaged for being represented by Beach.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 15:11:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The bottom line... (3.00 / 1)

... is that every LD has approximately the same population. So I guess "hardly anyone" lives in the Hudson county districts, either.

Blog: http://www.deciminyan.org

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by: deciminyan @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 16:47:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Progressive Leadership (0.00 / 0)

It's time for progressive leadership in South Jersey. DINO's do not represent progressives

Tom SW

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by: TomSW @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 20:03:37 PM UTC

Progressives cannot be elected in LD-4 (0.00 / 0)

Progressives cannot be elected in conservative districts such as LD-4 the way things stand today. While I'm no fan of Madden, he's better than his recent opponent, Tea Party acolyte Giancarlo D'Orazio. If I lived in LD-4, I would have held my nose and voted for Madden. And lest you think I'm a die-hard party-line voter, I would have seriously considered voting for the Republican assembly candidates, Shelley Lovett and Pat Fratticcoli. They're not much different than the Democratic victors, and having moderate Republicans in Trenton is a good thing.

As displeased as we are with Madden, no amount of rhetoric is going to replace him with a progressive. Instead, we need to do two things simultaneously, neither of which will be accomplished overnight.
First, we need to nurture progressive Democrats who live in LD-4, like Jeff Pickens. They need our support and assistance if they are to run for public office. Second, and even more important in the short term, is we need to turn the electorate around. Since a progressive cannot be elected in a conservative district, we need to educate the voters and turn the conservative district into a progressive one. This can be accomplished in several ways. Write letters to the editor and op-eds for your local papers. Meet with your conservadem legislators and nudge them bit-by-bit to the left. Get as much publicity for progressive causes as the Tea Party gets for their radical extreme agenda. Jay does his part - the rest of us should do the same.

The conservatives have spent 40 years promoting and nurturing their destructive agenda. Change will not come overnight. But if we just sit back and bitch and moan, change will never come.

Blog: http://www.deciminyan.org

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by: deciminyan @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 20:07:54 PM UTC

Progressives Have to Run for Office (0.00 / 0)

I agree with everything you say, but progressives have to run for office; if they are so inclined, have the stomach to do it, and have the wherewithal to do it. By running for office is another way, we, as progressives, can get the message out; in addition to what you have stated. We can't stand in the shadows any longer.

Jay does do his part and nobody does it any better!!  

Tom SW

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by: TomSW @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 20:27:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Right, emulate the Tea Party (0.00 / 0)

While we do not have the financial backing of the Tea Party, we can and should emulate their tactics, make noise, get involved at the local level, hold our elected representatives' feet to the fire, let them know we're watching. I try to do my part as time allows but I can't do it alone.
And, to Tom SW's point, yes, run against them. we ought to be able to find an electable candidate to the left of Madden to run in a primary.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 21:38:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Progressives can't be elected in LD4? Why? (0.00 / 0)

I wonder. I live in LD4 and held my nose and voted for Madden. There are LOTS of other Philadelphia (soliidly Dem. city) transplants here in Washington Twp., which has the largest population in Gloucester Co. Lots of Immigrant families, Latinos, African Americans etc. in LD4 too. Why isn't a truly progressive Dem.'s election here a possibility?  

mmgth

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by: mmgth @ Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 03:50:45 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Of course it's a possibility.. (0.00 / 0)

..but we're not trying hard enough; we're settling for who we have. We've got about 3 1/2 years to find someone to run in a primary against Madden. Are you in?

Good to see another LD4 reader here, mmgth. Pleased to "meet" you.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 10:16:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Enthusiastically IN n/t (4.00 / 1)

mmgth

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by: mmgth @ Fri Dec 16, 2011 at 02:28:27 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

sooner than that (0.00 / 0)

The entire Assembly and Senate is up for re-election in 2013.  State Senators will then run for re-election again in 2017, 2021, 2023, 2027, 2031, and so on.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Dec 16, 2011 at 13:46:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dems in Washington Township? (0.00 / 0)

While there are quite a few Philly Dems in Washington Township, your theory doesn't seem to stand up against the fact that three Republicans won council seats in Washington Township last year. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but I'm interested to hear a response.

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by: southernbluedog @ Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 16:35:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

We also elected a Democratic mayor (0.00 / 0)

by a large margin. I've lived in WT since 1985 and I still haven't figured out the local poltics here.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 17:20:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Maybe party isn't that important (0.00 / 0)

I think the two Republican women who ran for Assembly could just as well have run as Democrats. It's just that the D slots were already filled.

Blog: http://www.deciminyan.org

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by: deciminyan @ Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 18:44:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

true (0.00 / 0)

When I originally wrote my comment, I had something in there about Mayor Wallace. 9% is a significant win. I don't know why I didn't include it. Regardless, I concede that point to you.

If someone can convince me that the three council seats going to the GOP was a fluke, then I'll think about endorsing the idea of a progressive winning in LD4.

I've only recently started to pay somewhat close attention to Washington Township politics, so I don't claim to be an expert. I'll stick with one of my favorite sayings when it comes to Washington Township: "I know a lot about a little, and a little about a lot."

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by: southernbluedog @ Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 19:04:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Correct, not much difference between D/R (0.00 / 0)

in Washington Twp. Both mayoral candidates were palatable to me and I would have been satisfied with either one. I don't know much else about the inner workings of the Twp government but the schools and services here are good and I feel like I get my money's worth from the taxes I pay.

Keep in mind that there is more to LD4 than just Wash Twp. I'm still holding out hope that we can push our elected representatives in Trenton more to the left and eventually get rid Madden. But that will take more than just complaining.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 23:26:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Fluke? (0.00 / 0)

Three council seats went to Republicans running in Washington Twp. because they were for fiscal responsibility, cost efficiency and accountabilty. The Democrats running were also for... fiscal responsibility, cost eff... Jeez. I think people vote for the familiar, friendly guy they recognize and the rest of  the ticket (presumably his pals). Not a fluke. Just a popularity contest.

mmgth

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by: mmgth @ Fri Dec 16, 2011 at 02:24:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

So what you're saying is... (0.00 / 0)

... it doesn't matter how progressive or conservative a person is in LD4 as long as they are popular?

I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just trying to rationalize everything. I just don't see it as an easy task to elect a progressive in LD4.

By the way, as you probably know, DelBorello isn't as smart as he made himself out to be. I find him to be quite pompous and unintelligent. I've been to a couple of their council meetings and I'm not impressed by him as council president.

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by: southernbluedog @ Fri Dec 16, 2011 at 06:02:13 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

In local politics (0.00 / 0)

mmgth is right, people tend to vote for the familiar. And in WT there is not much difference between D & R.

As far as electing progressives in LD4, I never said it would be easy. I said it was doable. But we're not going to get it done by sitting and complaining.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Fri Dec 16, 2011 at 11:16:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

a little overreaction, Jay (0.00 / 0)

I understand you are upset with the Senator's voting record. It's definitely not a progressive record.  But it sounds like you had high expectations of the man and he failed you. It sounds like you made a personal investment (time, money) in the man and he left you out to dry.

While it's not wrong to hope a Democrat can follow the party principles, it was wrong to ever think this man was a progressive before he was elected.

Exhibit A is his time in the NJ State Police. With the amount of time he's spent in law enforcement, there's no way you can expect him to want to vote to abolish the death penalty or to allow drug users to have more needles. You get a tunnel vision of sorts and you become desensitized to the world. And as a former administrator, that showed me that he knew the hardships of government budgeting and the need to have "reform."

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by: southernbluedog @ Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 19:12:23 PM UTC

That's absurd (0.00 / 0)

Because he has background in law enforcement, he's going to automatically be against needle exchanges? Or the death penalty?

As a former cop, he should never have sold out his fellow public safety officers:

http://www.bluejersey.com/diar...

At least the unions were smart enough to avoid this guy:

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot....

We can do better. Primary challenge time.

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com

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by: Jersey Jazzman @ Fri Dec 16, 2011 at 03:46:39 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

what's your experience in law enforcement? (0.00 / 0)

When you're in law enforcement, you deal with the worst of the worst. And you constantly deal with the worst of the worst. I've said before on this site that I strongly believe in the fake statistic of 90% of the resources are spent on 10% of the population.  Obviously I have no sources for that statistic, so treat it as a made-up stat.

But I stand by my original comment. How many cops are want to abolish the death penalty after seeing Mumia Abu-Jamal murder Daniel Faulkner? How many cops are in favor of needle exchange after they spent their entire career dealing with drug addicts? I guarantee you that at some point in his life, even if it was facetiously, Fred Madden has said he wishes Mumia would fry and drug addicts would overdose and die.

Will you ever get the man to admit that? absolutely not. But when you spend your entire career dealing with the worst of the worst, you become desensitized and you become bitter.

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by: southernbluedog @ Fri Dec 16, 2011 at 05:50:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

forgive my english, by the way (0.00 / 0)

Before you attack me on my spelling/grammar, I already know it's wrong. But my opinion still stands.

I wish Madden was a progressive. I really do. I'm against the death penalty. And I'm in favor of needle exchange.  But I never had high expectations that Madden would be a liberal. I can't be disappointed in him.

In the words of Dennis Green, "they are who they thought they were."

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by: southernbluedog @ Fri Dec 16, 2011 at 05:54:14 AM UTC

[ Parent ]