2 users logged onTips: BlueJerseyDotCom (AIM) |      

Log In
Sign Up | Forgot Password?

On Education: Where Do You Stand?

by: Rosi Efthim

Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 02:45:00 PM EST



As KendalJames points out, OSA, on the legislature's plate this month as a side dish to lame duck with gravy, sounds harmless. He tells it:

Opportunity! Scholarships! Action! All of these things sound awesome, and even moreso when you string them together - "Opportunity Scholarship Act" - it just rolls off the tongue, like "Madoff Investment Securities," or "House Un-American Activities Committee."

It's the old thing its own track record tells us doesn't work - vouchers - repackaged all shiny by clever people who hope you don't read the research. Nevertheless, some influential non-electeds go big for it. And this week, rallies both against, and for, vouchers.

But where do you stand?

Somebody actually wants to know. Democratic State Chair Asm John Wisniewski wants to hear what you think about education. Honestly, I don't know if the votes are already aligned for some of the ed 'reform' we've heard is coming in lame duck. History teaches me to be as wary of Democrats in this issue as the GOP (not Wiz). But if I'm being honest, I don't remember anyone of his standing asking for this kind of input, either. It's good.

I'm told responses are pouring in. Parents. Teachers. School Board members. Activists. Education experts. People without kids in the schools. What they're writing about is broad - not just about charters, or vouchers, but suggestions on parent involvement, what kids are learning, etc.  Of course, the test for me will be whether how all this info will get out of the NJDSC HQ on West State Street and across the street to the legislators who will be voting. And of course, the degree to which they take it in. We'll see.

Here's Chairman John Wisniewski's invitation to share you ideas on education. Want to tell him? (like Bertin already did). Hit Wiz up at: educationideas@njdems.org.

Dear Supporter,

As the debate over New Jersey's education system continues across our state, your ideas and input are needed now, more than ever.

Recently, I hosted representatives of New Jersey's education community for a roundtable discussion on the state of public education in New Jersey.

The event, held at the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy in New Brunswick, examined education initiatives and issues expected to be part of the upcoming legislative debate. Representatives of various constituencies involved in and/or affected by the state's education policies, along with members of the general public were invited to participate in and observe the roundtable discussion.  You can see a short video featuring some of the discussion here.

Prior to the discussion, participants heard from Dr. David Driscoll, Chairman of the President's National Assessment Governing Board, past president of the Council of Chief State School Officers and former Commissioner of Education in Massachusetts. Dr. Driscoll discussed his experience in Massachusetts when that state implemented its landmark education reform law.  You can see Dr. Driscoll's remarks here.

What we need now is input from you! I am asking for your suggestions on what needs to be considered as we move forward in this debate over our children's future. Submit your ideas to educationideas@njdems.org

We need to ensure this process isn't about ideology, but rather about making education better and your feedback is crucial to crafting a plan that works. There are a variety of opinions and it's essential that we bring everyone to the table in order to develop the best solutions.

Thank you for everything you do. I look forward to your suggestions.

John

Video from the Education Roundtable that inspired Wisniewski's outreach efforts - below the fold.

Rosi Efthim :: On Education: Where Do You Stand?
Tags: , , , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email

Thanks Rosi (0.00 / 0)
Having just returned from a parent teacher conference I have a lot to say....

My tale of two teachers... (0.00 / 0)
I visited with my children's teachers this evening and the experience between the teachers was night and day.  

One teacher was of the attitude that she was going to teach and if my child got it, well that was fine, but if not...well that's for you to work out AT HOME.  I know I'm doing what I'm supposed to do if not more...but what about the kids whose parents aren't, or don't speak English so well...that kid gets an oh well!

Now the other teacher was equally task oriented and concerned about my child's performance but wanted to know what I thought, how I felt about their class, how did my child feel about the class. You know, that whole feedback thing!

Our urban centers and first suburbs CAN NOT tolerate lousy teachers who don't give a shit anymore. Maybe that works for the exurbs but we don't have that room for error here.

So JJ can spout all the qualitative studies and VAMs till s/he's blue in the face but I know what I just saw.


[ Parent ]
So... (0.00 / 0)
Let's put you in charge of finding the lousy teachers. You can sniff them out all over the state. You say they're bad, it must be so.

Makes sense...

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com


[ Parent ]
360 Degree Review (0.00 / 0)
The teachers know who the lousy teachers are. (This is the part where I remind myself "no eye poking")

360 degree reviews; reviews from and amongst teachers, students and parents. Coupled with test scores should give any administrator a fairly accurate and defensible position.


[ Parent ]
Your experience trumps everything, then? (0.00 / 0)
So your sample size of two trumps all other findings? That's some scientific method you have going there. Perhaps we could apply the same methodology to all fields of research. Think of the money we'd save doing actual statistical sampling.

[ Parent ]
Hm (0.00 / 0)
Sorry, this is just reactionary malarkey. You know what you saw? I equally know what I have seen - there, we're even.

You openly disregard real, meaningful evidence in favor of your admittedly narrow anecdote? Based on your previous posts here, you clearly have a position on public education. Don't make like we were all born yesterday and then throw a hyperbolic tantrum when you yourself admit implicitly that the evidence doesn't back up your "bad teachers" propaganda.  

"We do not consider patriotism desirable if it contradicts civilized behavior." - Friedrich Durrenmatt


[ Parent ]
Vouchers and Schools (0.00 / 0)
Can anyone tell me, in our flavor of the day conversation -- bad teachers --  how we know anything about the teachers are voucher schools?  Charter Schools?  Are the public schools the only institution that apparently houses bad teachers?  Or just the only institution that cares enough to protect their due process?

It is mind boggling to me that the proponents of vouchers and increased charter schools seem to think that public schools have unique problems that these schools are exempt from.....


Here is the crux of the argument... (0.00 / 0)
when there is no alternative, there is no motivation to improve.

Charter schools/Vouchers have to satisfy the customer or they go bye/bye.

That's why people put their hope into them.

Public schools (rightly/wrongly) in urban areas have many unsatisfied customers.  

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai


[ Parent ]
So... (0.00 / 0)
...the families who choose charters and privates for their kids that wind up going belly up - that's OK? Just a part of market forces playing out?

No thanks. Some institutions cannot afford to fail. You don't choose the police force you want and, if you get shot, say, "Oh, well, I guess I'd better get the Yellow Pages and find another!"

The vast majority of schools in NJ do an outstanding job. The minority that don't suffer from existing in a community with chronic poverty and little economic opportunity.

People say: "You're using poverty as an excuse not to reform the schools!" I say: "You're using reform as an excuse not to deal with poverty."

As to motivations to improve: as we've shown here many times, the science does not bear you out. Humans are complex creatures and driven by many things other than market forces.

Further, the competition from private schools is minimal in the best public school districts (the Peddies and Lawrencevilles take only a tiny fraction of students from those districts).

The slavish adherence to most human behavior being driven by the market is a fallacy perpetuated by an intellectually bankrupt right-wing noise machine. Don't believe the hype.

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com


[ Parent ]
Good point (0.00 / 0)
Using reform as an excuse not to deal with poverty is a valid point.

two things: the crux of this issue, or to put it more bluntly, the power behind this movement is not coming from the urban centers. Do you really think they have the political power to mount this campaign? NO! The power of this movement is coming from the first suburbs. Throwing out the Irvington's vs the Lawrenceville's, I think, misses the point.

two: poverty, or those stuck in low opportunity areas is not going to change. You can forget about affordable housing, it's DEAD. It pains me to say that, I have been a staunch advocate for AH but the fact is that Dem and Rep's alike will wrap up senior housing and/or disabled housing in a pretty bow and call it affordable housing before they'll let....well you know.

And where has the teacher's unions been on this issue?  Advocating that kids from the inner city populate their home towns?  I hope so!


[ Parent ]
No, Got Kids (0.00 / 0)
1:  The power behind this movement is coming from the people who stand to reap big bucks from it.

2:  Addressing poverty is more than merely addressing affordable housing. It is also about racism, access to health care and pre-natal healthcare, corporations exporting jobs outside the U.S., union-busting and eliminating jobs paying a living wage, who is incarcerated and for what, where banks make loans, the feminization of poverty and how many men are allowed to avoid caring for their children, how much money we spend on wars and military presence around the world (and don't spend here). Shall I go on?  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  


[ Parent ]
Let me ask you... (0.00 / 0)
if charters were required to operate as non-profit 503(c)'s, would you support them then?


"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

[ Parent ]
Yes, exactly. (0.00 / 0)
When that charter high school vs. the one in Camden goes belly up, it means that educational model failed.
The state reviewed/approved the charter, the parents must have some reason to want to get their children enrolled, it's not a total 'shot in the dark'.
When/if that charter is closed I don't think you can make a serious argument that the children were hurt by attending considering the alternative 50% drop out rate.

No you don't get to choose the police force you want, but YES, you do get the choose the hospital, and yes, some of them do fail. It's the same here. I don't think anyone would argue health care is not on the same plane as education, and there is choice there.

And yes, you get to choose among several public, competing colleges as well.

I agree, many schools are outstanding, and because they are, they have nothing to fear from charters. As seen in Flemington recently, when enough students aren't interested, the charter doesn't open.

Let's not conflate what 'science' bears out. Competition fosters innovation, proved 1000 times over. Yes, two people with the same education doing the same job might not both be motivated to perform disproportionately by different pay scales, but certainly, where you see competition, choice, you will see more efforts made to satisfy/retain customers. That's why we have laws against monopolies.

Market forces are not fallacies, ask the employess of Blockbuster, Borders, any major newspaper, you will see competing ideas/innovations showed these major companies the door.

If the current public schools have the best educational product they have nothing to fear from charters.



"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai


[ Parent ]
William (0.00 / 0)
here is a link that you might be interested in:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12...

Although the author lives in DC and discusses the situation there (including the odious Michelle Rhee), I think the points she makes have a wider application, including in NJ.


[ Parent ]
I read... (0.00 / 0)
For the rest of us, it's a cynical game. There aren't enough slots in the best neighborhood and charter schools. So even for those of us lucky ones with cars and school-data spreadsheets, our options are mediocre at best.

Solution is more spots, no?

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai


[ Parent ]
'slots' (0.00 / 0)


"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

[ Parent ]
Featured Stories

Hate Ads? Make them disappear.
Subscribe:

Blue Jersey Essentials

 EDITORIAL DIRECTOR
 Rosi Efthim

 STAFF WRITERS
 Adam L a/k/a/ clammyc
 Bill Orr
 Deciminyan
 Hopeful
 Jeff Gardner
 Jersey Jazzman
 KendalJames
 Senator Loretta Weinberg
 the_promised_land
 Rosi Efthim

» About | FAQ | In the News
» 
» Tips:
» Front Page RSS Feed
» User Diaries RSS Feed
» Blue Jersey on Twitter » Blue Jersey on Facebook » Blue Jersey T-shirts
ADVERTISEMENT

Blog Roll

» Alicia Menendez
» Alive and Kickin
» Baristanet
» Blog the Fifth
» Capitol Quickies
» The Center of NJ Life
» Channel Surfing
» Channel Surfing
» Deciminyan
» The Englewood Report
» Frank Lobiondo Record
» Fred Snowflack
» Freedom to Tinker
» Garden State Grapevine
» ClearysNoteBook
» Herb Jackson
» Hoboken Journal
» Hoboken Now
» Jersey Blogs
» Jersey Jazzman
» Middletown Mike
» More Monmouth Musings
» NJ Domestic Partnership
» NJ Politics Unusual
» NJ Voices: Policy Watch
» On Our Radar
» The Opinion Mill
» Other Spaces
» Plainfield Plaintalker
» PolitickerNJ
» Retire Garrett
» Ruins of Trenton
» Senator Ray Lesniak
» Stovetop Diplomacy
» Sustainable Cherry Hill
» The Subversive Garden
» Teaneck Progress
» Trenton Kat
» We Don't Need Permission
» Xpatriated Texan

Cartoons

» M.e. Cohen
» Jimmy Margulies
» Drew Sheneman
» Rob Tornoe
Search




Advanced Search












Ads do not constitute
an endorsement
from Blue Jersey.



Blue Jersey Gear

Visit the Blue Jersey store. T-shirts, bumper stickers & more!


Shirts available in dozens of styles and colors.



Visit the Blue Jersey Store

Contact Us
» Editor: 
» Press releases: 
» Advertising inquiries: 
» Tips:
About Us
» About Blue Jersey
» Blue Jersey in the News
» FAQ/Usage
» 
» RSS Feed

Misc Stuff
» Blue Jersey Radio
» Blue Jersey on Twitter
» Facebook Group
» MySpace Page
» NJ Politics 101 Wiki
» Blue Jersey Podcast
» Screaming Carrot Award
» Contribute to Blue Jersey
7968 satisfied users, visits and 0 subpoenas served since Sept 28, 2005
© Blue Jersey, powered by the mighty SoapBlox.
Powered by: SoapBlox