Poll shocker: Democrats disapprove of Democratic legislature

Remind me again (0.00 / 0)

Why should we continue to vote back in these incumbent Christiecrats who do not serve our interests?

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 14:32:19 PM UTC

Simple (0.00 / 0)

It is spelled Wisconsin

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by: firstamend07 @ Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 20:27:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Um.... (4.00 / 1)

But the D's in Trenton are already doing that.  They passed Christies budget last year, went along with him on a number of his pet issues this year....who needs R's when the D's will already do their bidding?

Scott Garrett - on the wrong side of, well, everything.

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by: Adam L @ Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 21:31:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It is not all of the Ds (0.00 / 0)

It isn't even most of the Ds.  It is the Ds who are beholden to the Adubato/Oliver-Norcross/Sweeney axis of evil who have rendered the Democratic majority in Trenton nonexistent by instead being part of a Republican-DINO majority.

The biggest problem with this situation is that Democratic voters who don't pay close attention to what is going on in Trenton are going to look at people like Dick Codey, Bob Gordon, Linda Greenstein, and even Jim Whelan as being the same as the lackeys who vote in lockstep with Sweeney and may not bother to vote in what will definitely be very close elections.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 01:48:29 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

New Jersey is worse than Wisconsin (4.00 / 1)

In Wisconsin, there has been a sizable backlash due to the purely partisan actions of its state legislature and several Republican legislators were recalled and next year, the Governor could be recalled.

In New Jersey, there is an image that what has been done has been done in a bipartisan manner, despite the fact that most Democratic legislators opposed the Republican initiatives that Sweeney and Oliver not only brought to the floor for votes, but also delivered enough votes for passage.

As a result, there is no effort whatsoever to recall any electeds, Democratic or Republican, and if there is a leadership challenge in November, Christie will deliver the Republican votes needed to keep Sweeney and Oliver in charge.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 01:57:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

rachaels'dad, You are right on the money (0.00 / 0)

So what if Christiecrats get replaced by Republicans. We get a year to see how much damage they can really do. Then and only then will there be a real backlash beginning with the defeat of Christie in 2013, along with recalls of other elected officials where appropriate, and election of real Democrats to the State House.

The so-called "bipartisanship" being touted is just Democrats capitulating to Republicans.

I'm not buying the "Wisconsin" argument anymore. Perhaps we need a Wisconsin moment here in NJ to make Democrats mad as hell.

No pain no gain.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 09:11:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The problem is... (0.00 / 0)

...that it is more likely that we would lose someone really good like Bob Gordon or Linda Greenstein or even a Jim Whelan, who I think is less a Christiecrat and more a product of a political infrastructure where there is no alternative within the Democratic Party in South Jersey to the Norcross machine, than true Christiecrats like Sweeney et al.

The only answer to this problem is to build a statewide movement behind a progressive gubernatorial candidate and a slate of progressive legislative candidates who will provide Democrats in South Jersey, Essex County, and elsewhere with real choices in 2013 and beyond.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 14:11:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Link to poll not working (0.00 / 0)

The link goes to an article in APP about redistricting and says nothing about popular approval.

http://christiegonewild.blogsp...

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by: ken bank @ Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 22:26:51 PM UTC

ken bank (0.00 / 0)

Here is the article I think 12mileseastofTrenton meant to link to:

N.J. voters unsatisfied and disengaged. (Courier Post)

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 22:37:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Try this link (0.00 / 0)

PolitickerNJ

http://christiegonewild.blogsp...

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by: ken bank @ Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 22:37:11 PM UTC

So much for the afterglow (0.00 / 0)

As can be seen by these poll numbers, the CHRISTIECRATS are NOT moderate dems but are actually undeclared republicans.
Even the republican voters know this.

Could someone please tap FA07 on the shoulder and say "Told Ya So" cus I am kind of tired of doing it.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 02:42:04 AM UTC

Or... (0.00 / 0)

...just tell him that he would probably find a more receptive audience over at Save Jersey and that he shouldn't let the door hit his ass on the way out.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 03:19:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You would miss me (0.00 / 0)

Having fun telling each other how smart you are?

Anyone who states that NJ is worse off then Wisc. is misinformed at best or just  pretty dense.

For all the screaming and hollaring in Wisc. the fact is that those govt. workers LOST collective bargaining.They got lazy and lost the politics game.

IN New Jersey collective bargaining is alive and well.

Just because the CWA leadership cries about " lost rights" does not make it a fact.

CWA is still at the bargaining table with Christie. Pba is still negotiating contracts,as are the NJEA groups.They should stop crying and just do their job.

Why are they still at the table?

Because Steve Sweeney would not allow Christie to take away collective bargaining!

All Sweeney did was moderate a radical plan by the Governor on Health Benefits. Sweeney made it fairer and just to ALL participants. He saw that ONLY CWA members were paying for health care and he righted the wrong.

NO more free rides by NJEA and others.

Those members of the Radical Left would love to silence my " voice of moderation" .

But alas.....I will remain to help balance out the rhetoric and promote true debate on issues.

Maybe some on the radical left will even attain some political common sense along the way.

Sweeney and Oliver will keep Chrisite honest AND  moderate.Even the radical left must acknowledge that fact!    

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by: firstamend07 @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 10:24:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Pat yourself on the head (0.00 / 0)

as much as you like. You'll be the only one. You wouldn't be missed, neither would your ridiculous assumptions that the people who write this site are 'arm chair progressives' or 'radical left' be missed. You don't know what you're talking about much of the time.

And the truth is you make your benefactor Steve Sweeney look stupid with your wild accusations, and actually make it harder to see his good points because you spend so much time huff-puffing away his bad ones. You're obsessed, I'll give you that, and I understand that. But your obsession reads more like anger over personal slights and less like fundamental understanding of core principles. Okay, so much for you.  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 12:13:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

good points? (0.00 / 0)

What good points does Steve Sweeney have?  I am not aware of any.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 13:56:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

They did lose their rights to collectively bargain (0.00 / 0)

over health benefits.  It was imposed on them.  Who knows if it will ever come back?  You can be sure that if it's the Christie-Oliver-Sweeney axis in four years, it won't.  Substantively, it might not be as bad as Wisconsin, but politically it's worse.

Care to comment on the subject of the diary?  Or this one on Sweeney?

26% approve, 30% disapprove.  

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x128...

Clearly, you are the one out of step with the majority of the Democratic party members in this state.  You're the one out of the mainstream.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 12:25:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Can I Have Some of the Drugs you're on? (0.00 / 0)

You claim: "All Sweeney did was moderate a radical plan by the Governor on Health Benefits."... when pretty much every living democrat (Real, not DiNO like you) calls that STEALING THE RIGHT TO NEGOTIATE.
Consider that the "Committee" consists of 6 labor side, 6 Adminstration side and one "Tie-Breaker" who just happens to be the Governors appointed State Treasurer. That makes a set of 7 to 6 in favor of the Guv.
How is a stacked deck against labor "Fair" to labor and a fair negotiating table?

You're delussional or stoned or both.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 13:41:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Don't feed the trolls (4.00 / 2)

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 10:22:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Jeff (4.00 / 1)

Every once in a while it's not a bad thing to remind new readers where some people who show up here have personal axes to grind and may not have credibility on the subjects they return to time and time again. Consider it housekeeping.  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 12:15:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Point taken, Rosi :) (0.00 / 0)

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 14:25:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Trolls (0.00 / 0)

If allowed to actually post articles on Blue Jersey, the Troll known as 07 would hurt this site.  But seeing his distortions and comments correcting them...well, its helpful.  Kind of like a pearl.  At the center is an irritant called 07  

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by: nsodano @ Sat Oct 22, 2011 at 01:17:22 AM UTC

We all have a purpose (0.00 / 0)

When debate stops,learning ends.

You can love my viewpoint or dislike my viewpoint but all I ask is that you agree or disagree with my viewpoint and stay above the " personal " stuff.

We all learn from discourse.

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by: firstamend07 @ Sat Oct 22, 2011 at 12:27:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

There is nothing to be learned... (4.00 / 1)

...from your side of the "debate".

When conservatives and liberals debate, they come from different ideological places, and it is possible for either or both to look at an issue from the other person's point of view and learn from the experience.

However, in the guise of moderation, you defend a corrupt political machine that operates without any ideological basis, except that politics is a means to an end and values are fungible.  I have more respect for a teabagging wingnut than I do for you and anyone like you who would compromise your values, assuming for a moment that you and the people who you defend have any, for the sake of political expediency and the accumulation of power.

Excuse me if that is too personal for you, but for me, politics is personal.  It shouldn't be a business or a game.  It is about people, their lives, and the quality of those lives.  In my opinion, there is nothing more personal than that and when the people who you defend view them and their issues of concern as pawns to be sacrificed or the casualties of their business dealings, they become less than worthless.  They become the most dangerous people in politics.

And when you defend them, you are, more often than not, nothing more than a common liar.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sat Oct 22, 2011 at 14:49:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Lighten Up! (0.00 / 0)

You say," you defend a corrupt political machine that operates without any ideological basis,".

I say ,PROVE THAT STATEMENT!

Sweeney Corrupt?
Oliver Corrupt?
Norcross Corrupt?

NOT ONE LEGISLATOR ,OF THE CURRENT SOUTH JERSEY LEGISLATORS, HAS EVER BEEN EVEN ACCUSED OF BEING CORRUPT.

You might not like their moderate politics ,but CORRUPT? GET REAL!

George Norcross has done more good for Camden than anyone in the past 50 years. Is he corrupt?

You use words too freely.

Maybe your radical left passion has caused you to demonize everyone who does not think exactly like you. It is you,not me ,who has become the " small tenter" . The exclusioner!

Don't let hatred ruin you.  

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by: firstamend07 @ Sat Oct 22, 2011 at 18:33:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The corruption is... (0.00 / 0)

in their acting towards self interest and desire to be in the leadership roles and doing anything, including making deals with REPUBLICANS for the votes to keep or get those positions, even if it meant throwing REAL Democrats under the bus.
That is a corruption of ethics, morals and loyalty and the worst corruptions of all.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Sat Oct 22, 2011 at 19:15:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't have to prove anything, but... (3.00 / 1)

...I broke into politics working down in South Jersey on Governor Jim Florio's 2000 Senatorial primary election campaign and from that experience, I know how the Norcross machine operates.

That said, considering the fact that George Norcross was tape recorded talking about all of the elected officials that he had bought and paid for, it is interesting that at the same time that Chris Christie was putting party bosses like John Lynch, Joe Ferriero, et al in prison and forcing others like Ray Lesniak to lower his profile, which allowed Steve Adubato and Norcross to expand their operations further throughout the state, neither of them were the subject of any serious indictments or investigations.

This becomes even more interesting when you look at how the much lower Corzine's numbers were in machine counties in 2009 when compared to 2005 and how Adubato, Norcross, and Christie have developed such a good working relationship since Christie's inauguration.

No, I cannot prove anything, but this is not a court of law and I think that there would be more than enough evidence to convict these guys in the court of public opinion if the public actually paid close enough attention to what these guys have done to render an opinion.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:06:54 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Politics is indeed personal (0.00 / 0)

It is about people, their lives, and the quality of those lives.

This is why the behavior of so many politicians of both parties as well as the people who blindly follow their lead turns so many others off to politicians in the first place. While it might seem like simply a game of chess to those who play it, it is very much a matter of values, principles, and people's lives and quality of life to most people.

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by: Alex @ Sat Oct 22, 2011 at 18:58:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Firstamend (0.00 / 0)

You mischaracterize and describe in (uninformed) personal terms people here consistently. So, you're better off holding the lectures about " debate" and "learning" to yourself.

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Sat Oct 22, 2011 at 17:11:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]