I'm Not Sure I Can Hold My Nose This Time

The Bottom Line (0.00 / 0)

The bottom line is that if you don't vote, you are voting for the Republican (who I assume would be worse than your empty suit Democrats). If you write in someone else, you are voting for the Republican.

Elections are a 365-day process. You should be in your representatives' faces all the time. Work with their staffs. Write on your blog. But friends don't let friends vote Republican. A flawed Democrat is generally better than any Republican.  

Blog: http://www.deciminyan.org

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by: deciminyan @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 00:32:06 AM UTC

I'll leave 2 boxes empty when I vote (0.00 / 0)

I, too, am in the 4th Dist. and as of now I will not vote for Madden and Moriarty. I just can't vote for a Dem. siding with a Repub. Governor hellbent on decimating  public service workers' unions. I've held my nose before in my 39 yrs. of voting. I've always voted Dem. But I can't stomach Christiecrats. Isn't there a line that can't be crossed?  

mmgth

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by: mmgth @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 04:32:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

deciminyan/mmgth (4.00 / 1)

As I think I've mentioned in a comment elsewhere, I don't think it has truly registered with the Dems in this part of the state the real level of disgust we have with our representation, at least among those of us who care. These guys simply do not deserve another term.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 08:43:17 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I can't say (4.00 / 1)

I already voted for Sweeney himself (gasp), but if nothing else he and his staff always respond to my calls with a letter. They're good on constituent services.
 

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

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by: Hopeful @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 02:27:40 AM UTC

So's Chris Smith (0.00 / 0)

But I would never vote for him.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:30:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is part of the GOP strategy (0.00 / 0)

Divide and conquer.  There's a time and place for challenging an incumbent within his/her own party and that is called a primary.  

I have already voted for Democrats in my new district, a VERY GOP district where the Democrats are sacrificial lambs.  I know nothing about either one of them and have not been contacted by any campaign this year.  However, I'd rather take a Democrat that votes with the party 85% of the time than a Republican who votes with us 0% of the time.  Not voting in any particular race is a vote for the GOP.

http://outspokenliberal.blogsp...

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by: tabbycat31 @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:14:25 PM UTC

Primary (0.00 / 0)

They called up the pension and benefits legislation after the primary, and certainly way after the filing deadline had passed.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:34:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Primary needs to be moved to September (0.00 / 0)

The first order of business for the incoming Legislative class of 2012 should be to move the State Legislature primaries out to September, after the budget votes. This way the incumbents may be more cognizant of the wll of the people when they vote on the budget or to override CC's vetoes.
Let's  

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 13:11:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Let's try that again (0.00 / 0)

(before my computer went farkakt on me) I was about to ask, are there any Profiles in Courage in the State House who would vote to hold themselves accountable to the voters.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 18:18:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Don't vote for them (0.00 / 0)

If there are no independent candidates for those races, just skip them.

Christiecrats should not be rewarded.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:32:02 PM UTC

Elections are not Personal (0.00 / 0)

Not voting for a Christiecrat is a vote for a Tea Party Republican. You are not punishing the Christiecrat by withholding your vote. You are punishing the citizens of New Jersey.

Blog: http://www.deciminyan.org

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by: deciminyan @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 13:17:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

That's rather a blanket statement (3.00 / 1)

Not every Republican candidate or officeholder in New Jersey is a teabagger.

Always vote your conscience.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 15:18:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Indeed, your vote is yours alone (3.67 / 3)

In a system in which so much of the game is rigged, what with outsized influence of party bosses, corporate money, etc., one of the last things that is left to the voter is to vote his or her conscience. With all due respect, I can't shake the feeling that the call to vote for Democrats, no matter what their record, because it could be worse too often means that those same Democrats will be justified in taking votes for granted and will behave accordingly when in office. As someone who is not connected to anyone in the halls of power, I don't have much of a voice. What I do have is my vote, which I will cast according to the dictates of my conscience. I'm very fortunate that the Democrats who represent my district in Trenton as well as in Washington happen to support positions I generally support. But I could never blame anyone who, faced with a Democrat who is indistinguishable from a Republican, acts according to the dictates of his or her conscience and chooses a third alternative.

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by: Alex @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 15:58:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Exactly (0.00 / 0)

the call to vote for Democrats, no matter what their record, because it could be worse too often means that those same Democrats will be justified in taking votes for granted and will behave accordingly when in office.

It should be approached on a case-by-case basis.  How bad is the Democrat?  How bad is the Republican?  What is the effect on the overall balance of power?

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 16:05:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's not personal. Dem. legislators are never anti labor (0.00 / 0)

The Christiecrats punished the citizens of N.J. with their vote. My mind isn't 100% completely made up on not voting for Madden/Moriarty but there's got to be a line that can't be crossed. Opposing collective bargaining rights and voting with Repubs. on orders from George Norcross is not a position any Dem. should take ever. At least Sweeney is faking remorse. These two aren't.

mmgth

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by: mmgth @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 16:29:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sorry, Deciminyan (4.00 / 1)

But the citizens of New Jersey have not been well served by the two Christiecrat LD4 incumbents. I cannot vote for them unless they can give me a compelling reason between now and Nov 8th. Look at the reactions in this comment thread. We're mad as hell in South Jersey.

Blog: Pick's Place

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by: jeffpickens @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 18:31:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wisconsin Attitude (0.00 / 0)

Only the maintaining of a Democratic Majority will prevent New Jersey from becoming Wisconsin.

Continuing the Sweeney/Oliver leadership team will prevent Christie from getting his full Wisconsin agenda.

Vote the Madden team, they are good ,solid,moderate Democrats.  

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by: firstamend07 @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 16:19:05 PM UTC

Destroying the Sweeney/Oliver leadership... (3.50 / 2)

... is the ONLY way to get things back on track.

Keep them but call on every member and let thejm know that the Sweeney and Oliver need to be sent to the back of the class for being disruptive to the future of the state.

Sweeney has sold his soul to Christie, Norcross and his own over-bloated ego and Oliver is just a sheep who follows what she is told.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 18:12:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Moderate Democratic Party views are not Christie Views (0.00 / 0)

Reforming the Pension and Health plan was needed.

CWA leadership makes the gullible think that the end of the world occured.

So now govt. workers pay a little more. Big Deal.

CWA is looking to make excuses for a lousy contract they are going to spring on their members. Local govt. teachers for an example have gotten moderate raises in new contracts. That will offset their raised deductions.

The Democratic Party has moved to the middle. Most Progressives understand that and try to work with the moderates. However some Radical Lefists remain out of touch.

Don't worry, we moderates will cover for you for awhile until you come to your senses.

Sweeney Oliver work to " moderate" Christie. If the legislature became KeanDeCroce NJ would become Wisc.  

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by: firstamend07 @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 19:54:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Christiecrats are NOT moderate Dems... (4.00 / 1)

A moderate Dem defends workers rights to negotiate AT THE BARGAINING table.
A Republican steals that right with legislation. These Christiecrats stole the right with legislation.

Christie now has control of the State Health Benefits Plan Design Committee with the majority by way of the Treasurer (A Christie appointee) being the deciding vote in any tie in the ridiculous committee so stop trying to paint it as anything akin to "Bargaining".

Christie runs a subservient administration and NOBODY he appoints dare cross him or they lose their job.

Sweeney, Oliver and the rest of the Norcross/Adubato Christiecrats sold out the democrats by acting like total republicans.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 20:14:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Christiecrats are NOT moderate Dems... (0.00 / 0)

A moderate Dem defends workers rights to negotiate AT THE BARGAINING table.
A Republican steals that right with legislation. These Christiecrats stole the right with legislation.

Christie now has control of the State Health Benefits Plan Design Committee with the majority by way of the Treasurer (A Christie appointee) being the deciding vote in any tie in the ridiculous committee so stop trying to paint it as anything akin to "Bargaining".

Christie runs a subservient administration and NOBODY he appoints dare cross him or they lose their job.

Sweeney, Oliver and the rest of the Norcross/Adubato Christiecrats sold out the democrats by acting like total republicans.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 20:14:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A little more? Big deal? (0.00 / 0)

Tell that to the teachers who are working without a contract but who now staring at even higher contributions. Tell that to people who are making pitiful pay, are unlikely to get much if any pay increase, but will see their take-home pay go down because of increased contributions. That you can describe this as "a little more" and scoff at it being a "big deal" suggests you either don't care about the plight of working people or just are grossly misinformed about the reality many New Jersey families are facing as a result of the past year of the Christiecrats while the rich and powerful get off with no added sacrifice expected of them. While people can certainly respectfully disagree on the best way to address this and other states' fiscal problems, to so trivialize the added burden on many low-earning public workers in this state can't go without comment.

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by: Alex @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 21:13:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Low Earning Public Workers? (0.00 / 0)

Who are those people?

If public workers are low paid they should bring that up with the union who has negotiated those contracts.

I do not know ONE government worker who would quit their job for an equivalent private sector position.

What many of you do not understand is that prior to the Reforms that were passed only a certain portion of public sector workers ( those " represented" by the inept CWA)were paying for health care.

Was that fair?

Now everyone pays a moderate amount.

The taxpayers have a negative opinion of government workers because union leaders have failed to promote what their members do each day. The taxpayers demanded reform and they got reform. It would have been draconian if it was not for the intervention of Sweeney and Oliver to moderate the reforms.

Does anyone really think that CWA could have gotten a better deal from Chrisite? CWA should kiss Sweeney's ass for the work he did to get the moderate reforms passed. THEY certainly would not have gotten the same deal and THEY certainly would not have assured that all participants pay their fair share.      

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by: firstamend07 @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 21:52:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ha! (3.50 / 2)

You don't know one government worker?  Oh, therefore it must be true.

And since you again seem to indicate that government workers are not taxpayers, I ask that you join with me in getting them refunds for all the taxes they have paid over the years.

And all workers were paying 1.5% for health benefits prior to the legislation.  Most will be paying much more in 7 years under this legislation.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 22:06:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Your moderate amount isn't the same for a single Mom... (0.00 / 0)

or spouse of a disabled partner, or child.

You are making statements with no real idea of how most other people live.

Your fantasy world doesn't exist for many NJ State workers so stop blowing smoke up everyones...

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 22:33:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Farcical (4.00 / 1)

I do not know ONE government worker who would quit their job for an equivalent private sector position.

You can't be serious. In fact, that quote alone leaves me wondering if the only reason you post (with the usual Sweeney and CWA drumbeat) is to get a reaction from commenters. Amazing.

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by: Alex @ Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 22:48:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Me!! I'll quit! (0.00 / 0)

Many studies have shown that NJ public employees make more (including pension, benefits) than private sector workers in jobs not needing a college degree, and less in jobs needing college degree or higher.

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by: princetonblue @ Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 02:01:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

No one has quit! (0.00 / 0)

I know many,many, public sector workers.

Many!

I know some who retired.

I know, unfortunately,some who passed away.

I even know some who received promotions.

BUT I DO NOT KNOW ONE WHO QUIT THEIR GOVERNMENT JOB TO TAKE A PRIVATE SECTOR JOB!

I am not saying that public sector work is easy, it is not. As a matter of fact I have been the one demanding that the CWA Union leadership begin a campaign PROMOTING the difficulty of some of the jobs. Maybe if the taxpayers knew what actually happens in a psych hospital for example ,there would be a better understanding of where their tax money is being spent. But CWA union leadership would rather spend their money foolishly.

What I am saying is that ,for whatever reason,and quite frankly moving forward those reasons just do not matter anymore, both the pension fund and the health fund were in trouble.

The pension fund deductions were  ALWAYS  legislated. The new laws gave individual members stronger lawsuit rights. The health plan WAS CORRECTLY legislated this time because there had been a HUGE disparity as to whom was paying and who was not. CWA members were paying for years ,while other union participants got off free.

No more. All participate, all pay.

No one has quit or will quit their public sector jobs due to these moderate incrreases.

Some of the radical leftists on this site make it sound like public sector workers are being crucified. That is the nonsense that inept union leadership is putting out.

Again I stand by my statement. NO PUBLIC SECTOR WORKER WOULD LEAVE THEIR JOB FOR A AN EQUAL PRIVATE SECTOR  POSITION.

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by: firstamend07 @ Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 10:20:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're right... Because of UNIONS and Union Earned Stability (4.00 / 1)

Most public sector workers won't quit for two primary reasons; Union representation and the stability it has fought for.

Having a Union to protect you, represent you and defend you from an aggressive, unfair, or abusive employer is something most people can't get in private sector because private sector unions have been decimated.

Sadly, even that may be changing because of Christiecrats like Sweeney and Oliver who would rather seek an abusive governors acceptance to keep their leadership positions than stand up for the public workers and their unions.

So, you're right but not for the reasons you think.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 13:05:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I know I am right, thankyou. (0.00 / 0)

Glad to see you agree!

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by: firstamend07 @ Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 19:23:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]