Welcome to New Jersey, Ron Paul

Cults (0.00 / 0)

If you define a cult as a group of people who blindly follow the leader even if it's against their best interests (a LA Jonestown), then the Tea Party is a cult.

Blog: http://www.deciminyan.org

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by: deciminyan @ Mon Sep 26, 2011 at 15:09:47 PM UTC

Right you are. (0.00 / 0)

We were at the Kill the Bill rally at the U.S. Capitol, dedicated to stopping "Obamacare". Bunch of older people alternately saying this would kill their Medicare, or force them to go on Medicare, nobody should get national health care, "but keep your hands off my Medicare".

Saddest thing you ever saw.  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Mon Sep 26, 2011 at 15:19:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Went by this "Rally" (0.00 / 0)

And the only thing I could take away from it is that there aren't as many crackpots in New Jersey as I thought.
Very small turnout and I would swear a good quarter to third of who I saw of the 150 to 200 people there were either press or confused stateworkers on lunchbreak.


If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Mon Sep 26, 2011 at 21:09:49 PM UTC

Progressives could learn from the TPM (0.00 / 0)

While I agree with your description of the TPM as a top-down movement, the degree to which they have challenged establishment Republican candidates in primary elections at every level of government strikes me as something broader and deeper than the corporatists who are pulling the strings ever intended.  Did Dick Armey intend to produce candidates like Angle and O'Donnell when he produced his creature called the Tea Party Movement or, like Frankenstein's monster, did it get out of his control to a degree?

Either way, I believe that progressives should be challenging the Democratic establishment as aggressively as the TPM challenges the Republican establishment, and be led in this effort by someone like Howard Dean or Russ Feingold, one of whom should challenge President Obama in next year's primary election caucuses and primaries.

After the way that Obama insulted the Congressional Black Caucus this weekend, no pigmentally-challenged progressive should allow herself/himself to be intimidated by how a challenge against America's first biracial President might look to African-American voters.  I think that it is safe to assume that they would not be so arrogant and haughty as to tell people who have every right to complain about his performance as President to stop complaining.

Jimmy Carter was a failed President and deserved to be challenged by Ted Kennedy in 1980.  Kennedy's challenge did not weaken him.  He was already weak.  The same is true of Obama who will be perceived as having been a weak President during his first term whether he faces a primary challenge or not.  A few fiery speeches will not change that.  His half-assed, quarter-measured, capitulated, and compromised failure of a legislative agenda will speak far louder than any of his speeches.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Mon Sep 26, 2011 at 22:18:23 PM UTC

Agree but clarify (0.00 / 0)

Obama has no challenge because there is no "Ronnie Reagan" on the other side waiting to be lifted on passionate conservative shoulders.

As much as the TPM, desperate GOPers and marginal conservatives  want to try and convince themselves otherwise, none in the race have the appeal, congeniality (as fake as it may have been) or "Golly Gee" that Ronnie had.

AND there is nobody waiting in the wings with the appeal either.
The reason there are 12+ GOPer nominee wanna-be's is because the republicans are desperate and that they continue to try to dance with a beligerant and bullying hate-monger like Christie with some misguided sense of him being the party messiah just shows how desperate they are.

Obama is failing in a lot of ways and he really needs to rediscover, recover and recommit, sincerely and actively to the guy that ran for office three years ago.
I love Howard Dean and would be thrilled if he ran. Maybe he'll take Jolting Joes spot on the 2012 ticket but I don't see the DNC abandoning Obama because they fear an internal fight will damage their strength into Novemeber.

I disagree and thiink that a challenge will strengthen the party but I am not the one making the decisions.

Maybe when Obama wins in 2012, the house will swing back to blue HARD and he can be the president we elected 3 years ago.
I have that dream and I have to hold on to it because the GOP alternative is a horror show waiting to kill what is left of the middle class.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Mon Sep 26, 2011 at 22:55:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

not likely (0.00 / 0)

We had huge Democratic majorities in 2009 and he squandered them.  It is unlikely that he will have anything close to that in 2013 and he will do even less as a lame duck.  I am not sure what the connection between the lame Republican field and the lack of a progressive primary election challenger on the Democratic side is.

If we think that the Republicans are going to nominate a strong opponent, that would be a reasonable argument to clear the field for Obama, but if we think that they are going to nominate a weak opponent, it should embolden progressives to roll the dice with a primary challenge.

I feel that regardless of how bad the Republican opposition might be, Obama is going to own this terrible economy and he could lose to any Republican with the possible exceptions of Michele Bachmann and Herman Cain and I am not even convinced that he would be a lock against either of them.

If a progressive challenged Obama and won the nomination, he/she would have a clean slate in the fall and could run on how better things would be right now if Obama had done things differently.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 00:33:42 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I hope New Jersey elects a Rocket Scientist and the religious Right is now mute, nationally (0.00 / 0)

Rush Holt is the best example of an Anti-Christie.
Intelligent, experienced...

And the GOP has exactly NOBODY that will compell the necessary passion to unseat Obama.
In 2000, they had a hateful and loud religious right to carry Bush and they repeated the play in 2004... Not this time. That ship has sailed.
And the GOP and the Tea Party Congress own this economy. Regardless of what Fox News and rightwing blow hards say, the Democratic argument is simple... GOP OBSTRUCTIONISM. even when there was a majority, they threw more filibusters in 2 years that Bush saw in 8. Add to that a "Blue Dog" pack of fakers in the ranks and you had a bad set.

Obama will win but it won't be easy because of apathy, He has 1 year to rebuild the passion and PROVE himslef so it isn't a squeak.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 01:03:02 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I disagree (0.00 / 0)

The Republicans should own this economy due to their obstructionism, but that is an intellectual leap that is far too great for most voters.

Obama did as well as he did in 2008, because McCain was forced to own the the economic collapse due to the fact that he, and not Bush, was the Republican candidate.  The American voter did not give Democrats the benefit of the doubt in 2010 and they won't do it again in 2012.

As simple as the Democratic argument might be to you and me, it will not be simple enough for enough voters in key states like North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, and Florida.  Blue dogs or no blue dogs, they will make Obama own this economy whether we like it or not.

This is why Democrats need to nominate a new, progressive Presidential candidate.  However, we aren't going to do that, because the progressive grassroots does not fight for what it believes the way that the TPM does.  So we'll suck it up and hope for the best no matter how many times we are insulted by President Obama and members of his administration.

That said, maybe we should be prepared with bumper stickers after the country really goes down the crapper when President-elect Christie takes over.  Following are some ideas.  They may not be snappy enough for a bumper sticker, but I think that they get the point across.

Don't blame me.  I wanted a New Deal for the 21st Century, not tax cuts for everybody that won't pay for much more than a night out at McDonalds.

Don't blame me.  I wanted single-payer, not Obamacare.

Don't blame me.  I wanted real banking and finance reform, not another Wall Street whitewash.

OK.  So these are not as clever as "Don't blame me.  I voted for Zappa."  However, if I am right about Obama losing in 2012, it will not be because progressives did not support him enough.  If anything, it will be because we supported him too much and didn't boot him out the door when we had the chance.

We knew that Jon Corzine was in trouble more than a year before he lost to Chris Christie and if we had given him the hook and replaced him with someone like Dick Codey back then, I think that it is very likely that Codey and not Christie would be Governor today.

Sadly, we never learn, and instead of giving Obama the hook and replacing him with a progressive like Howard Dean or Russ Feingold who could offer Americans a better vision for our future without the baggage of the last few failed years, we will stick with Obama.

And Obama will give a lot of rousing speeches like the one that he gave before the CBC this weekend and it will inspire the already inspired, but it will probably not connect with independents who gave him a chance four years ago and probably won't do it again and it definitely will not connect with young voters who gave democracy a chance for the first time four years ago and if the 2010 results can tell us anything about 2012, it will be that we will not be seeing them again anytime soon.

Yes we can?  No, we can't.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:45:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]