Why I Don't Care About Oliver's Pact with Christie

There's a third point (0.00 / 0)

And that's what Christie actually said about people (the peons) having to do with less.  Let them eat cake Chris Christie?  This should be hung around his arrogant and hauty neck.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 14:52:00 PM UTC

Not that worked up about it (4.00 / 1)

because it was already known.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 14:52:39 PM UTC

Interesting take. But if there wasn't a deal, as she claims (0.00 / 0)

then why risk so much? She didn't get insurance from Christie, OK, but that means she was taking a larger risk, for what?

Coup or no coup, the majority of the caucus didn't want the bill posted.

Regardless of a deal she needed Republicans to pass the bill, because it was really something mostly Republicans supported and most Democrats didn't.

The denial just raises more questions about her leadership of the party. We'll have to see what else reporters find on this.

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by: DSWright @ Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 16:10:46 PM UTC

Eliminate Collective Bargaining? When Did that Happen (0.00 / 0)

You write," But what she does need to explain, and what the press should be relentless about, is why she voted to eliminate collective bargaining for New Jersey's workers. "

Collective Bargaining is alive and well in New Jersey!

CWA ,at this very time is negotiating with the Governor a new 4 year contract. At least that is what CWA members are being told.

CWA is also negotiating the terms of the new health care agreement and is supposed to be looking out for its members welfare during those negotiations.

The Pension Fund terms were never negotiated so that is not even an issue.

It is disingenuous to claim that collective bargaining has been eliminated in New Jersey. Unlike Wisconsin New Jersey has Democratic leadership,Sweeney and Oliver, that will guarantee that collective bargaining remains a workers right in New Jersey.

Some might not like the pension and health reforms,but do not equate your dislike into a phony argument about collective bargaining.    

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by: firstamend07 @ Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 23:57:28 PM UTC

"phony argument" it's in the bill! (0.00 / 0)

That was the entire controversy, doing by statute instead of collective bargaining.

Is this a joke?

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by: DSWright @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 00:05:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Then do not generalize (0.00 / 0)

You Stated that Speaker Oliver voted to eliminate collective bargaining.

She did not do that.

She voted to pass needed health care reform and took health care off the table for only one contract term.

CWA has plenty to negotiate and they have plenty of " bargaining chips" . Stop making excuses for them.    

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by: firstamend07 @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 00:19:14 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Did she vote to take away collective bargaining rights? (0.00 / 0)

As a CWA member you must know.

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by: DSWright @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 00:21:46 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

What I do know.... (0.00 / 0)

...is that CWA and the Governor are currently negotiating a new contract.

I believe that is the very definition of COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.

You might not agree with Speaker Oliver but please do not say that she voted to eliminate collective bargaining.

As long as Oliver is Speaker and Sweeney is Senate President New jersey will never become Wisconsin.  

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by: firstamend07 @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 10:10:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

"health care off the table" (0.00 / 0)

Niece euphemism.  The right to collectively bargain over health benefits was eliminated.  And Oliver vote for that.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 13:43:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Functionally illiterate or purposefully ignorant? (0.00 / 0)

Pick one because you're not factually articulate nor realistically coherent.

You ignore the FACTS and promote your fantasy at every opportunity.
It's like watching a Sean Hannity rerun, over and over and over and over.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 00:18:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I am right again (0.00 / 1)

Collective Bargaining is alive and  well in New Jersey.

If Union leadership cannot handle the job of negotiating then maybe THEY are the problem.  

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by: firstamend07 @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 00:20:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

How long are you going to hold a grudge about not getting a union leadership position? (0.00 / 0)

Honestly. Let it go.

To say the bill didn't hurt collective bargaining rights and indeed take them away in some instances (historically a first) is not true.

Does some collective bargaining still go on - yes, for now. But the bill did take those rights away and in the future other bills could go farther.

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by: DSWright @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 00:26:17 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

"I am right again" (0.00 / 0)

You're not.  And if you were, it would be the first time.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 13:43:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Firstamend07 is paid to post lies so let's not get so worked up (4.00 / 2)

His posts show a complete ignorance of what was in the bill that was passed.  My only explanation is that he's paid, probably by sweeney, to post these falsehoods.

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by: princetonblue @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 03:41:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Paid? Hardly (1.00 / 1)

First of all my positions and comments are mine and mine alone.

I learn different viewpoints from this site but must concede I am a " moderate" Democrat.

Some of the more ignorant claim that I post out of bitterness for some " personal" reason. Nothing can be further from the truth.

I prefer that people agree or disagree on the comments I present, not attack me personally. But some just can't resist.    

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by: firstamend07 @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 10:06:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Surely you're paid (0.00 / 0)

Why else would you continue to post absolutely false statements here?

For example, you continue to lie about the pension/health care bill just as you did when it was being debated.  The facts of what was passed and now being implemented are not what you keep claiming.

Also, your boss Sweeney did get rid of collective bargaining for at least the next four years with the bill, and possibly forever in the state.   The state now has the ability to impose whatever contract it wants by declaring an impasse.   It didn't before.   Please don't lie, and that's what it is, by saying otherwise.

The only bitterness here is by people like yourself posting complete lies here and then blaming others for not accepting then.  

But again, I think you value the money Sweeney pays you more than the truth.  

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by: princetonblue @ Sat Sep 10, 2011 at 01:57:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

There is no collective bargaining over health benefits (0.00 / 0)

Will it come back in four years?  Maybe, maybe not.  But I wouldn't bet on it.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 13:41:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're right deciminyan: (4.00 / 1)

So what? That's how politics work. Those of us who support the working class may be pissed off at Oliver, but government is the art of compromise deal making, and if the Speaker wants to make a deal with the Devil, she is certainly entitled to do so, and she needs to be held accountable.

But I'm not too concerned with the revelation that Christie got caught with Koch. He's a Republican. Christie's where he is because of his work for Bush, he goes on FOX regularly, and he's got Rove on speed dial. Just has to tone it down in Jersey for obvious reasons. Christie did not break character. Oliver and Sweeney, however, are another story.

What would it matter to Republicans to vote for a sympathetic Democrat? That's to their benefit. Does it matter to the Democratic legislature to have rogue machine Democrats selling them out? Then lying about it? That's the question. If everything can be simply dismissed as playing Jersey politics, then why have either Republicans or Democrats? And that is the game played by the Norcrosses and Adubatos in NJ. Politics, not party, not principle. What's in it for me?

With leadership like this, who needs Democrats that would 'go Republican' if it's to their benefit? I would vote Republican, and at least know that the cities will be a mess, the rich will get richer, and if the crime doesn't get you, the pollution will. That much we know.

The shifty, mislabeled 'Democrats' disgust me more than any Republican. Republicans are just being true to their principles, and I respect them for that. Turncoat Democrats we can do without.

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by: FreeDem @ Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 22:05:36 PM UTC