Tom Moran Defeats Strawman!

Couldn't agree more: (4.00 / 1)

"The lesson to take away is that when the times get good again we need to do a better job, not that in bad times we need to slash."

"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die." - Sen. Ted Kennedy

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by: Bill Orr @ Sun Jul 17, 2011 at 13:45:26 PM UTC

While I read Moran's article, (0.00 / 0)

Blue Jersey's 'Ledger Logic' kept running through my mind. As pointed out here http://www.bluejersey.com/diar... and here: http://www.bluejersey.com/diar... Democrats did not feel particularly partial to or represented by Sweeney's tirade.        

Moran sees pen/ben as necessary and beneficial in the long run, not mentioning the Democrat argument of the manner and means by which it was implemented, as discussed above. His ledger logic runs that public workers should contribute more, because their pen/ben and early retirement is not aligned with the current reality for most workers. Fair enough. The market sets the pen/ben levels. Following this logic, if wages and benefits are lowered to bare minimums in the private sector it should be likewise for the public sector, correct?  

Then Tom ties the benefits of pen/ben as a vehicle for funding 'liberal' social programs. Yes, Tom we're aware that Christie takes from Peter to pay Paul, and that Peter is often middle class or a public employee, and not a wealthy Peter.

Then Christie's seemingly irrationally drastic cuts to social programs, which had funding allocated under his budget, are in a better position to receive funds because of Christie and the Legislature's ramming through pen/ben? OK, the ends justify the means for Tom. Therefore a pen/ben voted in by the politically aligned is good because it serves against a politically motivated budget slashing. Is this a correct interpretation of the ledger's logic?  

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by: FreeDem @ Sun Jul 17, 2011 at 17:44:29 PM UTC

Ignoring the OBVIOUS (4.00 / 1)

There seems to a big problem with Christie/Sweeney/Adubato democrats when it comes to the whole argument on pension/healthcare debate. Like Fox news, truth isn't what matters, just the pablum of empty arguments justifying democracy killing legislation by screaming "The sky is falling".

The argument was NEVER about paying more. CWA had an offer on the table that would have saved MORE first year and almost exactly as much as the legislative option did, long term.

Oh, and that CRAP about 10, 20 and 30 years savings is utter and complete FANTASY because there is no way, short of NATIONALIZING (Universal, single payer) healthcare that will give even the most remote guesstimation for what healthacre will cost even 5 years down the Line.

When I sat in the room during the hearings and listened to Christie's treasury people throw 120 billion dollars on the table as long term savings after calrifying that the initial promised 300 Million first year was really gonna be more like 5 million, well, the reason for quoting the 120 Billion dollar fantasy numberbecasm obvious... distraction and misdirection. No businessman with an ounce of common sense would dare to project 10 years out and would view anyone projecting 30 years as being borderline delussional.

The Union leadership did their job. they came to the table, they offered real answer and real sacrifices and refused to accept an unwritten, undefined and unnumbered "We'll tell ya what's in it later" proposal that FA07 keeps stomping his feet about.
They did their jobs by trying to be thee adults in the room and making REAL offers that weren't about stabbing the working class families in the back for political campaign points.

It seems, even now, when all the truths are out on the table, including that Stephen Sweeney was too incompetant to even get assurances that Governor "Kiss My Ass" wasn't going to make a eunoch of him with his veto pen after getting EXACTLY what he wanted on healthcare and Pensions reform, nobody wants to face the truth. The Party Bosses, George Norcross, Joe Adubato and politicians Stephen Sweeney and Chris Christie essentially pulled a page right from the Scott Walker playbook and stepped on the throat of middle class public workers and all most of the democrats in the house and senate could do was watch as just enough of their own stepped across the line and added their foot to the public workers throat.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Sun Jul 17, 2011 at 18:28:07 PM UTC

Amazing... (0.00 / 0)

Oh, and that CRAP about 10, 20 and 30 years savings is utter and complete FANTASY because there is no way, short of NATIONALIZING (Universal, single payer) healthcare that will give even the most remote guesstimation for what healthacre will cost even 5 years down the Line.

So what your saying is that no one can possibly predict what healthcare can cost 5 years down the line, but would have preferred that the state take on the entire risk of offering the benefit based on only a known contribution (% of salary) and not the actual cost.

Doesn't your statement above justify the need for the premium based model?

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Mon Jul 18, 2011 at 13:49:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

EXACTLY (0.00 / 0)

You cannot predict a savings when the primary driver of the cost is both unregulated and unstable, as the costs of health insurance are.

It is actually one of the biggest reasons that businesses either refuse to consider the healthcare costs in P and L projections or limit the projections to 18 and 24 month cycles.

There is no realistic premium based model that won't likely exceed the federal 8% cap on cost to income ratios.

And LEGISTLATING was NEVER about the costs. Look up ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Commission). Most of the push for anti-union/pro-corporate legislation is being written by these people with support from the US Chamber of Commerce in order to finalize the dismantling of unions and labor rights representation in the local governments (And eventually federal considering the also want to disband the NLRB).

We are looking at a regression of the American landscape that seeks to return us to the practice of "Company Stores" and indentured servitude.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Mon Jul 18, 2011 at 14:10:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Moran is a mediocre writer and analyst at best. (0.00 / 0)

His columns are almost always simplistic to the point of being trite. His lack of curiosity during Sweeney's charade was breathtaking for someone who is trying to make a name for himself writing on Jersey politics. Long way to go before he distinguishes himself. The Ledger can no longer make anyone a Star.

For my money Braun is the one to watch:

http://blog.nj.com/njv_bob_bra...

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by: DSWright @ Sun Jul 17, 2011 at 22:05:11 PM UTC