You Reap What You Sow

At the very least (0.00 / 0)

Sweeney and Oliver should have held up on passing the pension and health care plan until they had a commitment on the budget. You would think he would have learned from the mistakes Obama made with the health care plan. Compromise is not in the republican dictionary. They are driven by the I got mine screw you mentality .

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by: bluescat1 @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 17:16:43 PM UTC

Either way he must be stripped of his leadership position (4.00 / 2)

That's the bottom line.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 17:16:47 PM UTC

Too little, too late (4.00 / 2)

Sweeney's whining here is like his mea culpa for not supporting ME - too little, too late.

Christie owed him nothing on pen-ben: it came out just like Norcross wanted.

I find Sweeney's rant to be insincere. If he wants to make it up to the base, he's going to have to do better. Otherwise, time to step down.

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com

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by: Jersey Jazzman @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 17:30:55 PM UTC

Sweeney insincere (0.00 / 0)

The only thing in Sweeney's rant I bought was his likening himself to a nitwit. Maybe even that was bullshit.

mmgth

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by: mmgth @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 22:55:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Whiners (0.00 / 1)

The most powerful Governorship in the country was made to compromise on pension and health reform because of the Senate President.

As usual the radical left continues to attack the wrong person.

Sweeney is fighting with a pop gun and Christie has an uzi.

But on this site it is all hating all of the time regarding Sweeney.

It is a shame because without Sweeney stopping ,or at least holding Christie back,New Jersey would look a lot worse than Wisc.

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by: firstamend07 @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 18:10:11 PM UTC

Troll (0.00 / 0)

Sorry, been trying to take you seriously but you're trolling here.

I support SJ Dems because the alternative is Republican rule but

It is a shame because without Sweeney stopping ,or at least holding Christie back,New Jersey would look a lot worse than Wisc.

is so dishonest and manipulative it could only come from a troll.  

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by: DSWright @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 18:18:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Compromise? (0.00 / 0)

As much as he may think so, Christie cannot enact legislation on his own.  Sweeney's been out to screw public workers for years now.  He didn't get Christie to compromise on anything.  There was only "compromiser," such as it was because of the Assembly Dems.  

Bottom line, the legislature could not have enacted any pension/health benefits legislation and there would have been nothing Christie could have done about it.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 18:35:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Kabuki Theater (0.00 / 0)

Totally and completely Kabuki Theater.

The axis is already planning ed reform together. So no this is all posturing the cursing is just extra makeup.

I don't think there are the votes to oust Sweeney, Oliver though is definitely in play.

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by: DSWright @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 18:13:50 PM UTC

Agree to an extent (3.50 / 2)

I'd say it's 85% kabuki, 15% Sweeney being betrayed.  He probably thought that Christie would go a little easy on the budget.  But besides being a sellout, he's a terrible negotiator.  

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 18:31:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Fair analysis but have to disagree. (0.00 / 0)

You honestly think Christie would outright betray the Norcross-JoeD/Audubato axis for a one shot budget in year 2 of a 4 year term???

Methinks not.

To quote the SJ boss

In the end the McGreeveys the Corzines [The Christies] are going to be with me - not because they like me - but because they have no choice

Still true. SJ Dems are raising money like you wouldn't believe and have a tight organization. And Essex.. is friggin' Essex! If Adubato hadn't sat on his hands Christie would have gone nowhere fast.

Betray that? For what? For Who?

Methinks not.

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by: DSWright @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 18:36:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Raising Money? (0.00 / 0)

We'll see. A lot of that money was union money. Will they be able to replace it?

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com

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by: Jersey Jazzman @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 18:45:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Most of the money is not union money (0.00 / 0)

and certainly not PUBLIC union money.

Non-public unions, contractors/vendors, developers. Typical growth coalition.

So no, public sector unions lack of donations will not hurt SJ dems much at all.

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by: DSWright @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 18:50:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

To the ELEC Cave! (0.00 / 0)

Here are Sheila Oliver's contributions in the 2009 General election:

http://www.elec.state.nj.us/El...

Back of the Excel calculations here, so use with caution; I find:

Total Spending: $93, 200

Total From Public Service Unions: $33,400

Percentage of total contributions from public service unions:  36%

That ain't chicken feed.  

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com

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by: Jersey Jazzman @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 19:55:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oliver is vulnerable, Sweeney is not (0.00 / 0)

That's the one to pickoff. Her caucus hates her anyway from all the chatter I've heard from staffers.

That's where public unions could have an impact.

SJ, not so much.

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by: DSWright @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 19:57:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Perhaps (0.00 / 0)

But dissing Sweeney, by itself, will not cost Christie boss support.  They're the ones who pull the strings.  Not Sweeney.  If they have to throw him under the bus, they'll do so.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 19:50:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Maybe not in Essex (0.00 / 0)

but I wouldn't bet on Norcross dumping Sweeney anytime soon. They have longstanding ties going back to growing up together in Pennsauken.

Sweeney won't even pretend their is daylight between them in public let alone any secret alliance.

You have to remember that SJ threw a lot of money up north to help Joe D get in as county executive.

I will, however, submit that Steve Adubato betrays people constantly. So you never know on the Essex end of the axis.

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by: DSWright @ Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 19:53:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

" . . . it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" (0.00 / 0)

eh, Mr. Sweeney? (a bit from the Good Book, towards the end, I think)

I guess teachers are the only ones who have to watch their language these days.  

No, I doubt most of us could speak this way at work--interviews are part of pol's job.

I'd like to see the foul language quoted in anti-Sweeney ads:  "After getting burned by Christie, Sweeney could only call him a 'rotten pr--ck.'"

Another pol for the kiddies to look up to.  

More Pricks than Kicks says the young Samuel Beckett.

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by: Nowlan @ Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 00:02:55 AM UTC

A circular firing squad (0.00 / 0)

This is becoming more like a circular firing squad I'd expect from Republicans and TNuts.  Maybe Sweeney and Oliver were wrong on pension reform, but it is an issue with widespread popular support (including myself I might add, though I suppose I wouldn't count as part of the Democratic Party "base").  And since Tom Moran is the reference for this story, I think it's important to note that he's given some pretty persuasive arguments in support of reform, including reasons why collective bargaining in this particular instance is not as efficacious as collective bargaining in the private sector.

Anyway, I should hope that the "base" of the Democratic Party consists of alot more than public sector workers.  Besides, most Democrats voted against reform so it seems to me the "base" will still turn out to vote for those candidates, like Linda Greenstein who has a credible GOP challenger in Richard Kanka.  And those Democrats like Sweeney, Stack and Oliver who voted for reform will likely not have to sweat even if the "base" decides to sit this one out.

By removing reform as a political issue Sweeney and Oliver have actually taken away the one issue Republicans have this November which enjoys popular support.  Now Republicans have nothing else to campaign on other than defending Christie, whose popular approval is sinking faster than the Titanic.

Call me a troll or whatever you want, but for my two cents worth I think it's time to break up the circular firing squad and move on from the Sweeney bashing to more important issues like the draconian budget cuts to this year's budget, how to restore those cuts, and most important, making sure Democrats retain control of the legislature, if not getting a veto-proof majority like Republicans did in 1991.

http://christiegonewild.blogsp...

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by: ken bank @ Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 00:17:47 AM UTC

My party right . . . or left? (4.00 / 2)

With respect, Christie is not the problem.  Without support from the angry, the scared, and the stupid he's nothing.

The worst enablers are those who think Christie is a person we can deal with.  "Yes, he's not so bad," or "if he can lower my taxes without hurting me . . ." Or we do need reform . . ."

Reform, eh?  What does the word mean to Christie?---  Just  tweaking things a bit to save some cash, eh?  Watch you don't get tweaked next.  

The new budget is going to "reform" many lives--poor and middle class ones.  The wealthy get to keep their forms the way they are.

Sweeney (if he is to be believed) did not suspect what was obvious to all of us.  At the very least this shows poor judgment.

And his filthy and reckless remarks would cost any non-elected government worker his job.  Can behavior like that be defended?  

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by: Nowlan @ Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 01:13:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Who's shooting whom in the what? (0.00 / 0)

Drudge links to Sweeney's remarks, of course.

Let's give it to them on plate, huh?

Years ago I saw sign in a bar which read, "We cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you."

You'd almost believe it, for a second, if you were half in the bag.

What's Sweeney's excuse for being played like Jimmy Smith's B-3?  

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by: Nowlan @ Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 02:12:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great Metaphor! (0.00 / 0)

Now THAT'S a simile!  

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com

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by: Jersey Jazzman @ Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 03:28:17 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

No Quarter. (4.00 / 1)

That was the plan? Get away with the ben/pen, then distract with draconian budget cuts, eh? I agree that Democrats should retain control of the legislature, without Sweeney and Oliver.  

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by: FreeDem @ Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 02:55:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Amen Brother! (1.00 / 2)

Too much bashing for any real progress to be made here.

Stop smacking around Democrats and start exposing Tom Kean,Alex DeCroce and the other puppets.

Sweeney is NOT the enemy.You might disagree with him sometime( not all the time!),but he has done a great many good things.

There are 2 or 3 real "haters" on this site that attempt to dominate the conversation. Others, like myself, who try to lend a balance to them often have their comments taken down.

So be it. Never understood censorship but I guess open discussion scares some people.

If the REAL Progressives who read this site do not seperate themselves from the haters then their ideas will only be further ignored.

HEED "ken bank"!  

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by: firstamend07 @ Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 14:00:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Tom Moran? (0.00 / 0)

Tom Moran doesn't understand the first thing about benefits reform. If he did, he'd be complaining that the bill does NOTHING to rein in health care costs, the entire crux of the problem.

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot....

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com

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by: Jersey Jazzman @ Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 03:30:33 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Funny thinig about that... (0.00 / 0)

the health and pensions reform bill will mosy likely cost the workers AND the tax payers more and do more damage to the economy of New Jersey than the cuts Christie just made.

Tom Moran is no more able to comprehend the damage that Sweeney, Oliver and Christie have done, long-term, to the people and state of New Jersey than Sweeney will be of pulling his credibility out of the toilet.

And now Sweeney is playing this kabuki-like act of being horrified that Christie did what Sweeney knew full well he would do.

If Sweeney cared to defend the democrats budget, he would have put it BEFORE the Health and Pensions reform bill. Nobody can be so stupid, when dealing with Christie, to believe he would be a man of his word. A skunk doesn't change its stripe. If Sweeney really DID believe this, he is the most pathetic excuse for a political leader to come down the pike since McGreevey.

Sweeney knew what was going to happen and was complicit in all of it because it all serves Norcross and Adubato, their friends and conspiritors.

Sweeney's career is over and no amount of fake anger is going to change that.  

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 03:50:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I would really like someone who knows (0.00 / 0)

to answer my question.  

If cutting and "balancing" the budget are so important, how come my property taxes keep going up???

Re:  Sweeny and the turncoats from Essex, the old saying "when you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas"  seems appropriate.

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by: sandy23 @ Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 13:46:26 PM UTC

Not necessarily cause and effect (0.00 / 0)

If the budget is balanced by cutting municipal aid it can actually cause your property taxes to go up.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 14:13:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Much like "trickle down" ideology (0.00 / 0)

which has been proven over and over again to be fraudulent, chopping municipal aid is a similar fraud.  The outcome of slashing aid to our urban areas is so predictable: Cities will be forced to cut programs and public safety while simultaneously dramatically raising taxes (see The City of Trenton).  Those who relied on the services will become more desperate, as desperation increases the demand for police increases. As crime rate goes up, reinvestment will go down further pushing up unemployment.

NJ republicans always wanted to chop the cities off of the state budget and they are finally getting their way.

A recession is a republican's wet dream, unfortunately for those most vulnerable, it is their nightmare.

"Only a fool would follow a bully"

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by: brendanod @ Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 16:18:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]