Is Anyone Else Noticing a Pattern?

Thank You! (4.00 / 1)

This is the dirty sludge that many democrats in NJ are feeling now.  Actually, why bother having a political tag at all, they are blurred and the same...  and at the end of the day the middle class, working class, and anyone below the 250k a year mark just doesn't matter.  Where is our party?

There is no political party to represent me now.

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by: HurtPillow @ Tue Jun 28, 2011 at 21:39:19 PM UTC

Paradigm Shift (1.00 / 1)

" Your" Democratic Party has moved to the middle.

From Obama on down the shift has occurred.

As the Republican Party has moved further right it has brought the Democrats into the center.

This " stuff "happens. The key is to get out in front and recreate your ideas with more of a " moderate " twist.

The middle class has not been left behind and neither has the working class.

What is important is that Sweeney,Lesniak,and others listened to those who had good arguments and changed their viewpoints.

Left wing Democrats are just going to have to work harder and not expect to have things given to them like in the past.

That is the way the pendulum moves.....  

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by: firstamend07 @ Tue Jun 28, 2011 at 21:53:33 PM UTC

You're right about one thing... (4.00 / 1)

The Dem party has moved over toward the Republicans: more and more of them are kleptocrats, just like nearly all of the Reps.

The issue isn't about right/left; it's about doing things for the people/sticking it to the people.

I have far, far more respect for evangelical "values voters" than I do for Dems who sell out their constituents. I may disagree with those ideologues on the right, but at least they're motivated by their sense of morality and ethics (however wrong it may be). I'll debate ideas with them all day.

So, no, I'm not moving to the "center" (what a crock), because that's not what this is about. It's about putting your fellow citizens - the folks who do the work of this state - ahead of elite interests.

You've been hanging around here a lot, telling us what a great deal Sweeney is offering public workers. Sorry - what I documented above has nothing to do with that. It has to do with using politics to get your patrons what they want. That's not right/left: it's right/wrong.

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com

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by: Jersey Jazzman @ Tue Jun 28, 2011 at 22:11:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The middle class has not been left behind? (0.00 / 0)

What are you smokiing?

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by: princetonblue @ Tue Jun 28, 2011 at 23:12:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What an ass... (0.00 / 0)

It was much easier when I worked in the private sector and now I'm just getting screwed in the public sector.  As your buddy Christie would say, "YOU DON'T KNOW ME!"

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by: nkromann @ Tue Jun 28, 2011 at 23:54:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The last thing we need (0.00 / 0)

are followers like you who are attracted to power and have no moral compass.  What is particularly disturbing about you is that you continuously try to sell your snake oil no matter how many times you are rejected.  You are not a visionary, just a salesman selling to the wrong crowd.

"Only a fool would follow a bully"

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by: brendanod @ Wed Jun 29, 2011 at 00:59:02 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Your ilk hasn't won a statewide primary in over 40 years (0.00 / 0)

Lautenberg, Menendez, Corzine, McGreevey, Bradley, Torricelli, Florio and Byrne.  Not one is, or was, what you call a "moderate" Democrat, but which in reality is a "moderate" Republican.  Not Democrats at all.

This was the result of a coup undertaken by the bosses in north and south jersey in 2009, to take the party away from the real Democrats.  First, they helped deliver the state to Christie.  Then they got rid of Dick Codey.  Who would have won the governor's race in '09 even with their opposition.

They could win control of the party at the ballot box, so they stole it through a backroom coup.  

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Wed Jun 29, 2011 at 01:22:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's About Money. (1.00 / 1)

F. Principle and People. How am I supposed to get elected by catering to the poor and middle class? With $50 donations from Joe middle class, and $0 from urban dwellers? Or with $5,000 from Jerk and Co? Should I give tax dollars to the elderly? Or to businessmen for their insurance company, and young entrepreneurs for their media or charter school outfit, who will find a way to repay the favor? This is the reform we're talking about. Unions and social programs are SO status quo. We've re-packaged the old money shuffle, and people are buying it. They believe in our new and improved packaging. It's selling quite well, thank you.

Firstamend07 is kinda right (if not completely). The trick is moderation. Which product would sell better? One that appeals to a select market, or one with broader appeal?

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by: FreeDem @ Tue Jun 28, 2011 at 22:43:03 PM UTC

ANSWER: (4.00 / 1)

When you start making them.

"Power concedes nothing without a demand, it never has and it never will." Frederick Douglass

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by: DSWright @ Tue Jun 28, 2011 at 23:44:32 PM UTC

Amen brother (0.00 / 0)

Now we're getting somewhere...

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com

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by: Jersey Jazzman @ Wed Jun 29, 2011 at 03:46:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

OK (0.00 / 0)

So how are you going to make them?

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by: DSWright @ Thu Jun 30, 2011 at 00:51:28 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Just like Uncle Ted said (0.00 / 0)

The last thing this country needs is two Republican parties.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Tue Jun 28, 2011 at 23:50:38 PM UTC

The Democratic party in this state is run by crooks and sellouts (4.00 / 1)

I don't know if the vice grip the bosses and the unprincipled sellouts have on this party can be changed from within.  It may be time to seriously contemplate trying to change it from without.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Wed Jun 29, 2011 at 01:12:36 AM UTC

Change it from without (0.00 / 0)

Actually, its never been tried from the inside with anything like an organized effort.  

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by: nsodano @ Wed Jun 29, 2011 at 03:44:18 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Is Lesniak Really Wrong? (0.00 / 0)

The Lesniak legislation, as I understand it (and if I am wrong, please note that and then don't hit me!) is not a giveaway to luxury condominium developers, but an extension of a tax break for low income housing condos to include high-end condos.

Given that Lesniak represents Elizabeth, Hilllside, Union, etc. this makes sense.  This is an area that is already completely built out and townhouses or converted condos make good sense when rehabbing or rebuilding old housing stock.  There is also an extremely diverse population there, racially, ethnically and economically.  

Myself, I don't think it is a good idea for the state, particularly if the break for higher priced condos doesn't include a requirement for comparable lower priced condos, but for his district with aging housing stock, wealth and poverty, and a proximity to Manhattan this would be helpful for his constituents.

And Lesniak was elected to represent his district.

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by: huntsu @ Wed Jun 29, 2011 at 11:22:19 AM UTC

Point taken, but... (0.00 / 0)

it's really going to be the most helpful to the developers of those luxury condos, isn't it?

Is that whom the Democratic party represents now?

http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com

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by: Jersey Jazzman @ Wed Jun 29, 2011 at 18:26:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not to my mind. (0.00 / 0)

Does the Elizabeth UEZ mostly help IKEA, or the people who shop there, or Elizabeth which would not have the property taxes from IKEA and the mall without it?

The developers get a short term reduction in the cost of the condos, but the community maintains the long term benefit of higher quality housing stock which brings more revenue and often fewer children in the schools.

So I don't see it as mostly helping the developers, but as inducing those developers to take the chance to build high-end condos in communities they might otherwise ignore.

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by: huntsu @ Thu Jun 30, 2011 at 13:20:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It appears (0.00 / 0)

Lesniak's approach appears to be  to try and kill two birds with one bill. Build up in low income areas (except for that change in the bill to develop in Hoboken and such) in the interests of low -mid income housing, while helping (wealthy) developers make a buck.  

On school vouchers, you help kids in troubled schools, but give a business (wealthy) a tax break.

So it's a win for the wealthy, and a win for the poor. Sounds good enough. Only problem is the bills would go back to the middle class to pay. Sounds not so good enough.  

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by: FreeDem @ Wed Jun 29, 2011 at 23:27:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not realy (3.00 / 1)

Tax breaks for high-end condos would make developers more likely to put them in places like Union and Elizabeth, which would also be helpful to those communities.  It becomes a chicken and egg thing, and with Lesniak's history with the death penalty, gun control and other issues I'm willing to bet he is more interested in helping the urban district he represents rather than the developers.

As for vouchers, they don't help kids in troubled schools.  Instead they allow some kids who have parents interested enough in their schooling who also have enough money to make up the difference after a voucher to send them to private school if the school accepts their child.  If these parents were that interested in education, they could have tried to make a difference in their school system.  On top of that, if vouchers were successful they would remove the interested parents and quality students from the public system, dooming all the other kids to failure.

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by: huntsu @ Thu Jun 30, 2011 at 13:18:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

History (4.00 / 1)

First, let me say that I appreciate the thought and effort you put into writing diaries here.

Second, let me say that this is not a current pattern of NJ politics.  It seems to be the fruition of a lot of influential politicos across the the spectrum.

I haven't read Soprano State, so I can't comment on Stile's observations.

I am posting a link to a
Salon article by Steve Kornacki:

http://www.salon.com/news/poli...

Kornacki sometimes makes me crazy, but this one seems to ring true.  What do you and others think?

I posted this because I was thinkiing BJ should have its own BJwickipedia or Politifacts.

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by: SmartyJones @ Wed Jun 29, 2011 at 20:49:07 PM UTC

Kornacki knocks it out of the park again (0.00 / 0)

Yes, the '09 deal was the coup by which the bosses, the hacks and the DINOs took over the party.  And yes, Codey being pushed aside for Corzine in '05 got the ball rolling.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Wed Jun 29, 2011 at 22:37:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Radical Left Not Coming Back (0.00 / 1)

How hard is it to believe that the moderates now control things.

There will be no Coup's. There will be no " uprising " from the left. The radical Left has no political juice.

Moderate fiscal policy.

Responsible ,moderate social policy.

Respect for the " whole" middle class.Union and non-union.

The comical ignoring of out of touch government worker union leadership,who by the way do not even have the support from their own membership ( rallies get about a 2% participation level).

THIS IS THE FACE OF TODAYS POLITICS.

Real Progressives have open minds. The Radical Left is closed minded.

Open your minds! Listen sometimes. Stop drinking the Kool-Aide of a Radical Left wing takeover.

Moderate Democrats,united, can do a lot of good in this State.  

   

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by: firstamend07 @ Thu Jun 30, 2011 at 14:03:43 PM UTC

I don't see (0.00 / 0)

Republicans being 'moderate'. They are fiercely loyal and can for the most part be depended upon when needed. They're faithful, like your so-labeled 'Radical Left', which is the new Republican term for Real Democrats.

Yet you expect Democrats to be 'open-minded', so by 'opening-up' they're vulnerable to Republican policy?

What we witnessed during the pension battle & demise of NJN was not 'moderate Democrats' in action. It was (a)political bosses using people as pawns on a grand scale to their benefit. Are these the 'moderate Democrats' of which you speak?  

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by: FreeDem @ Thu Jun 30, 2011 at 14:37:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]