Sweeney/Beck Bill Undermines Collective Bargaining and Enriches Health Insurance Brokers (Norcross)

Wow. So This is all a Conspiracy! LOL (0.00 / 0)

I get it now! All the problems with the health plan being underfunded is really just a smokescreen for a pay day for some politically connected politicians!

How could so many people have been so dumb!  

So this is the CWA argument against S2718? unbelievable!  

Just when my optimism in that organization was starting to rise the CWA mouthpieces come up with this crock.

Nothing like a good old conspiracy theory!  

 

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by: firstamend07 @ Wed Mar 02, 2011 at 21:05:15 PM UTC

1st Amendment Gets it Wrong again (4.00 / 1)

Your hatred of CWA makes you completely incapable of basic analysis.   You make up an arguement and claim that it is mine when nothing could be further from the truth.  By the way, the health care funds are not underfunded.   Rates are calculated on a yearly basis

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by: cwadudley @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 03:16:09 AM UTC

Dudly, don't bother (4.00 / 1)

1st amend Just a low level pro-DiNO Sweeney poster based on remarks and replies.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 04:24:22 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Off Target argument (0.00 / 0)

The pension fund is broke.

The health plan is broke.

You spend your time arguing over sidebar issues.

Every state worker with an ounce of common sense knows that the taxpayers, the Democrats, the Republicans ,and the Governor are demanding that we pay more.

WE WILL BE PAYING MORE!

State workers have 3 choices for health care reform.

Pay Christie's draconian demands which would absolutely kill many employees.

Go with S2718 and the Sweeney/Beck gradual 7 year payment plan,which is VERY  fair.

Or roll the dice and hope that the CWA negotiating team can get a better deal than the Sweeney plan from Christie.

There are no other choices.

I think the best deal is the one on the table, the Sweeney plan.

What do you think?

 

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by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 11:17:01 AM UTC

I think that you are wrong (4.00 / 2)

The funds aren't "Broke". The state has been and is mis-managing the money and letting the rich skate. The funds are mis-managed as is the states budget.

Christie REFUSES to tackle the PROBLEMS because the PROBLEMS are his FRIENDS.

This Governor and previous governors are putting 90% of the states problems on 12% of the states expenditures.

If people would stop letting politicians do their thinking for them and start looking at how and where the state collects and alots the revenues from taxes and investments, they'd see that it is more about how the state has dropped the ball.

The debate at hand is a distraction from the reality. Firstamend is just another lemming following the Pied Piper of B.S. that is Stephen Sweeney.

Sweeney is Beholden to Norcross and Norcross is just another rich banker with  more to lose if the people wake up.

most of this country has been stupidly given away to corporate and banking interests through the death of a thousands of little cuts. Now we see the assault on the last bastion of Democratic strength in Wisconsin and you're ready to pretty much do the same thing here just because Sweeney has a "D" after his name on the ballot sheet?
A Judas or a Pilot, it doesn't matter.

Every little sacrifice of a democratic right is a little death and if you keep taking these little deaths all across the land, pretty soon you'll lose everything. And for what? You think this will win you anything? Are you that naive? NO. You'll just be another voiceless slave to an uncaring, selfish corporately funded government.

There are 5 TRILLION dollars sitting in the hands of American businesses and banks but they are holding it back and waiting for what? Magic money to take its place in the economy?
No, they are waiting until the labor movement is broken and this country becomes a monocracy of right wing, pro-business billionaires making all OUR decisions and keeping us in debt to them.

Go ahead and sell your soul to the machine. I'll keep mine and fight for what is fair.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 12:09:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Off Target Argument (4.00 / 1)

Again you can't deal with the facts.  The health fund is not broke.  The local government part of the State Health BEnefit Plan has a health reserve fund equivalent to 2 months of claims.   The state portion of the fund does not now and never has had a reserve fund -- but all the bills are being paid.

Why would you say that the health plan is broke?  Simply to create panic?

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by: cwadudley @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 17:50:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dudley Burge knows the facts (4.00 / 1)

as well as anyone in this state.

Probably better

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by: sayitaintso @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 19:50:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sweeney/ Beck (0.00 / 0)

Fair? versus what exactly?

There is an implication of a HUGE conflict of interest with both of them. Beck came to Trenton via the Lobbyist route ... remember?

The bottom line is what is best for the tax-paying public and holding down costs for the employees themselves?

And yes, I beleive in a basic single payer MEdicare for all, with private insurance companies freely competing for the "Cadillac" programs ... but we have now a mess and must find the best way out until we can fix the "mess".

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

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by: Babs NJSD @ Sat Mar 05, 2011 at 17:20:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hold on... (0.00 / 0)

Are public entities ALLOWED to switch out of the State plans?

The gov. has put the cost of the state plan at $24k. Is he full of it?

That is defintely not cheaper than private insurance.

I was under the impression that the state plan was some of the best insuranace available. It makes perfect sense that towns were collectively bargained into offering that plan. It also stands to reason that once you get the best insurance available, you wouldn't want to give that up.

I'd guess the 3 towns that were able to switch out of it, were only able to do that in exchange for some other concession from the unions.

I don't think your being quite honest when you suggest that towns have free will over which insurance to offer, isn't that all bargained for?

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 15:45:54 PM UTC

Hold on (4.00 / 1)

The cost of the health plan is around $19000 for family coverage which is similar to what other large employers in NJ like PSE&G pay.   New Jersey is probably the most expensive health market in the world.

Yes local governments can leave the State Health Benefit Plan whenever they want.

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by: cwadudley @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 17:46:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You Gotta be joking Dudley! (0.00 / 0)

"The health fund is not broke"

You actually beleive that?

Well you win! I am done arguing this. I can't have an honest arguement with someone who  thinks the fund does not need reform.

Keep drinking the CWA Kool-Aide and enjoy yourself in la-la land!

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by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 21:26:17 PM UTC

There is no (0.00 / 0)

"Health Fund"

it's pay as you go, isn't it?

Every year revenue is generated and spent to pay the premiums.

Isn't that correct?

As such, the 'fund' cannot be broke.

But, the liability can rise to a level where it consumes a disproportionate amount of the budget and/or requires tax increases.

But that's what the debate is all about, isn't it? Where exactly is that level...

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 21:51:30 PM UTC

Universal, Single Payer (4.00 / 2)

An opportunity MISSED.

Had the Repubicans in DC not fought the common sense "Single Payer / Universal Healthcare" with lies, distractions and played the "health Insurance Industry" shill, we would have an all encompassing, single payer, access to all healthcare system.

Who would have suffered? Insurance? sure. Pharma? Maybe. Coprorate Profit driven healthcare agencies? A bit... But what about that shared sacrifice? I guess it only counts when it falls on the shoulders of the poor and middle class.

As much as health insurance and the corporate healthcare industry wants you to believe that single payer / universal is some kind of "Socialist Curse", it's a lie and criminal to scare people away from the common sense answer to health care.

If the issue is costing, control the cost by taking the wheelers and dealers cutting backroom deals to keep their profits up, like an OPEC cabal does in oil.

The GOP is burying us and turncoats like Sweeney are just selling our recovery and our freedom out from under us.

If we don't stand together, we fall alone
That didn't last long.

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by: Couch Potato Politics @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 22:01:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A missed opportunity (0.00 / 0)

That is one of the many reasons why the healthcare debate, such as it was, and the resulting legislation last year were so disappointing. This country missed yet another opportunity to take the single biggest driver of increasing costs to business and government out of the picture. In a world in which healthcare costs (and insurance company profits) keep rising and high rates, expecting property tax growth to be capped while maintaining quality of public services is simply unsustainable.

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by: Alex @ Fri Mar 04, 2011 at 13:35:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are almost right (0.00 / 0)

The debate is that more money is going out then is coming in so more money must be collected from either the taxpayer or the employee or the plan will not be solvent.

Should employees pay a bigger percentage of the cost?

That is the whole argument.

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by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 22:03:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think my bigger issue... (0.00 / 0)

has to do with what is offered...

From what the governor said (and this is where I'm getting this from)

There are limited choices which are offered at the same (or very similar) costs. This encourages people to 'buy' (select plans) insurance they might not really need.

Younger/Heathlier workers might opt for lesser coverage if it cost them less.

I'd agree with the governor on that point, there has to be some incentive for workers to opt to choose a lesser expensive plan, and that lesser expensive plan has to be made available.

30% of premium may be unreasonable, but maybe a higher fraction of salary for some plans, etc...It seems to me there is plenty of room to compromise and still achieve significant savings.

(if the premise that people are buying insurance they don't really need is true)

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Fri Mar 04, 2011 at 14:51:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great sign at today's rally (4.00 / 1)

"Christie and Sweeney:  Perfect Together."  It's what I've been saying for quite a while now.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 23:14:06 PM UTC

How about NJFamilyCare for all? (4.00 / 1)

Make NJFamilyCare the standard for all public employees, including but not limited to elected officials and their staffs.

Sell NJFamilyCare to anyone who wants to purchase it at a premium over its base cost with the proceeds paying for it to be given to everyone earning 200% of the poverty line or less so that NJ can qualify for federal matching funds under the Obama healthcare plan.

Requiring elected officials, public employees, and the rest of us to have a stake in the NJFamilyCare program should ensure that it provides sufficient coverage at the right price.  Let the private insurance companies compete with that.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sun Mar 06, 2011 at 01:05:13 AM UTC

This Is Corrupt Dirty Machine Politics Writ Large (0.00 / 0)

Unless the diarist is making up facts, this is an open and shut case of a monied interest group having it's way with the state of New Jersey.

When insurance is purchased as part of a large group you get wholesale prices.  No need for "brokers".

Better yet, expand the pool to EVERYONE, then there is no need for insurance companies at ALL.

The ideal is irrefutably logical and simple and right.

We are being shafted.

As for fa7, he says good things "Dr Jekyl" generally....right up until any issue comes up that is important to Sweeney/Norcross machine....then "Mr Hyde" shows up.    It's so overwhelmingly obvious the guy/gal is owned.  He's been "consistent" for years.

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by: Nick Lento @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 19:52:08 PM UTC