Governor Christie: Voice of Reason on Religious Freedom in Lower Manhattan

Disappointed (0.00 / 0)

with Dr. Dean:

http://www.salon.com/news/opin...

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by: SmartyJones @ Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 17:39:15 PM UTC

More impressed (0.00 / 0)

with Ted Olson:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo...

He agrees, as does Ms. Peltzman, with Gov. Christie's statement.

PS: Not only is the proposed community center not called "Ground Zero Mosque," but it is no longer called "Cordoba House."  It is now called, "Park 51."

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by: SmartyJones @ Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 17:51:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Smarty (0.00 / 0)

You and me both. Mystified, even.

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 22:20:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

this is an example of what attracted me to Dean in 2003 (0.00 / 0)

If we are going to talk about what Dean said, let's talk about what he said.

First of all I am not going to back off. The reaction did surprise me because most of the negative reaction had to do with defending the constitutional rights of the builders of the center. Of course I never attacked those rights, I explicitly supported them as the President also did this week. Nor did I side with the Islamophobic rhetoric of Newt, Palin et al. There are a great many people in this debate talking past each other as is often the case these days.

Here is my case. First, no one who understands the American Constitution can reasonably doubt the right of the builders to build. Secondly, the building site is very close to the site of a violent tragedy that seared the soul of every American including Muslim Americans. Thirdly, the builders of the proposed Islamic Center say they want to help heal the nation and there is a preponderance of evidence that that is true, based not least on the fact that the last administration viewed the leadership of this group as a. pro American bridge to the Muslim world.

Fourth, there are many Americans, about 65 or 70 percent, including many family members of the victims, who have very strong emotional resistance to building on this site. Some of them may have other feelings such as hate, fear, etc. but the vast majority of these people are not right wing hate mongers.

My argument is simple. This Center may be intended as a bridge or a healing gesture but it will not be perceived that way unless a dialogue with a real attempt to understand each other happens. That means the builders have to be willing to go beyond what is their right and be willing to talk about feelings whether the feelings are "justified" or not. No doubt the Republic will survive if this center is built on its current site or not. But I think this is a missed opportunity to try to have an open discussion about why this is a big deal because it is a big deal to a lot of Americans who are not just right wing politicians pushing the hate button again. I think those people need to be heard respectfully whether they are right or whether they are wrong.

This has nothing to do with the right to build and unlike same sex marriage or the civil rights movement it is not about equal protection under the law. The rights of the builders are not in dispute. This is about ending the poisonous atmosphere engendered by fear and hate, and in order to do that there has to be genuine listening, hearing and willingness to compromise on both sides I personally believe that there are other possible solutions that could result from such a process and that a genuine exploration of those possibilities is something we ought to try.

Dean has thankfully never been a liberal ideologue like Dennis Kucinich.  The positions that he has taken have always been grounded in identifying problems and applying solutions, not rhetoric for rhetoric's sake.

There are several points that Dean makes, which I believe are spot on.

This Center may be intended as a bridge or a healing gesture but it will not be perceived that way unless a dialogue with a real attempt to understand each other happens. That means the builders have to be willing to go beyond what is their right and be willing to talk about feelings whether the feelings are "justified" or not.

This is about ending the poisonous atmosphere engendered by fear and hate, and in order to do that there has to be genuine listening, hearing and willingness to compromise on both sides I personally believe that there are other possible solutions that could result from such a process and that a genuine exploration of those possibilities is something we ought to try.

I think that it is unfair to disparage people like Howard Dean and Anthony Weiner, because they are unwilling to play the us versus them game, and instead are more interested in trying to solve problems.

As much as I would have preferred Dean to have supported marriage equality, single payer, and a repeal of the 2nd Amendment, to his credit, I recognized that his focus on providing equal rights under the law, insuring the uninsured, and combating gun violence where it was most prevalent were more practical positions that enabled him to be as relevant as he was, has been, and continues to be to this day.

While we do not have to agree with his position on this or any other issue, we should respect it and recognize that it is part and parcel of his being the most constructive and productive leader in the progressive community.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Sat Aug 21, 2010 at 04:12:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

And Another Thing (0.00 / 0)

I disagree with Olson and Peltzman re: Christie's statement.  This is not a political football.

It's a wedge issue first written about by the noxious Pam Geller.  The GOP then decided it was a great way to avoid the real issues that should be discussed in the upcoming electoral debates.  So, Newtie, Sarah and the truly despicable Cornyn started making a big deal of it.  Sadly, Harry Reid bought into it.  So has Dr. Dean.

So, now we have a political football.  Frankly, the First Amendment is very clear....

I am sympathetic to the families who lost friends and relatives at the WTC.  Hell, I was almost there myself.  Mercifully, I was late going to court.  I don't think I would have been at the WTC but rather, running uptown with Guiliani (who designated 7 WTC as a bunker against terrorist attacks).  I have only read a few responses from WTC families - for and against.

I could go on.  A few things:  Burlington Coat Factory was a retail store not a manufacturing
space.  Olberman is (respectfully) trashing Dean as I write.

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by: SmartyJones @ Fri Aug 20, 2010 at 00:38:21 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Interesting (0.00 / 0)

that this is where Christie draws the line.  I think he tries to keep himself insulated from the crazy, lunatic fringe of the right (Palin).

Women's health care, gay marriage, medical  marijuana, destruction of public education, futher destruction of our urban areas, destruction of social programs and raising taxes on those who can least afford it --  these are all acceptable GOP positions?  

It is interesting, because I am sure the majority of the racist simpletons who support him would approve of burning the "9-11" mosque to the ground.

Again, the only thing I can figure is that he wants to seperate himself from the real lunatics, and since this is a national issue, he does not want to be thrown into the "Palin" category.

"Only a fool would follow a bully"

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by: brendanod @ Fri Aug 20, 2010 at 21:55:41 PM UTC