Christie's latest broken promise: Property tax rebates

not good (4.00 / 2)

Frankly, I'd rather give up the tax rebates given some of the other cuts. The New Jersey Transit fare hikes and route cuts really are balancing the budget on the backs of the poorest working people.

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

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by: Hopeful @ Fri Mar 05, 2010 at 23:06:29 PM UTC

I'm merely (4.00 / 1)

pointing out his latest broken promise.  I didn't think he could keep it when he made it, but he was just pandering during the campaign.

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by: Jason Springer @ Fri Mar 05, 2010 at 23:08:55 PM UTC

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I agree (0.00 / 0)

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

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by: Hopeful @ Fri Mar 05, 2010 at 23:37:21 PM UTC

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Tough One (4.00 / 2)

The loss of the property rebate will hit the elderly and others on fixed incomes, such as disability or SSI.  A lot of foks in my community will not be able to remain in their homes.

But choosing between a fare hike and property rebates is a false issue.

We all know Christie is going after the most vulnerable.  Somehow, people making 250K, 400K or 1M plus don't seem to be equally sharing the pain.

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by: SmartyJones @ Fri Mar 05, 2010 at 23:53:51 PM UTC

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yes, you are exactly right (0.00 / 0)

It is not that a big deal to me, it will be a big deal to some of my neighbors who are on fixed income.  

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

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by: Hopeful @ Sat Mar 06, 2010 at 00:30:08 AM UTC

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We (here) All Knew That Christie Was Full Of.... (4.00 / 2)

....male bovine fecal matter since long before he announced his candidacy for governor.  These policies/outcomes are no surprise.

Now it's up to the Democrats in the legislature and ALL the elected Dems throughout the state to call him, and the Republicans out on all this nonsense.

That means fighting back and protecting the interests of the PEOPLE of our state.

If Democrats fail to make a major stink about the shafting of middle class, poor and working class PEOPLE then they have lost their political compasses and their moral courage.

It's great that we here can articulate all of this.....but unless our political leaders are willing to take the gloves off and truly fight back, it doesn't matter what is written here.

The perverse irony is that Republicans have mastered the art of screwing and hurting people and the finding ways to blame Democrats for it.   And the Dems seem to just lay down and take it.

Will it take a complete electoral disaster for our party leaders to wake up?

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by: Nick Lento @ Sat Mar 06, 2010 at 00:05:35 AM UTC

to your last line (0.00 / 0)

yes, but will that still be enough?

Scott Garrett - on the wrong side of, well, everything.

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by: Adam L @ Sat Mar 06, 2010 at 01:48:33 AM UTC

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A Good Decision, even if a Promise Broken (0.00 / 0)

I applaud Christie if he eliminates the property tax rebates.   It's a broken promise (and he is to be criticized for ever making the promise) but the rebates have always been a gimmick.  I completely understand the regressive nature of property taxes versus income taxes, but at the same time, many citizens don't seem to take seriously the high costs of their municipalities (through whom they vote for) because these rebates offset much of the taxes.

If we are going to make NJ sustainable, we need to eliminate the gimmicks.  Hopefully, when the real pain of the cuts hit, people will be much more supportive of items like raising taxes on people making more than $400,000 a year (or $250,000).  But we're not there yet.  People still want to believe in the easy solutions the Republicans put forward.  

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by: princetonblue @ Sat Mar 06, 2010 at 15:45:22 PM UTC

Did (0.00 / 0)

you read the damn diary?

I daresay everyone who reads Blue Jersey and /or writes here knows that NJ's tax sytem is badly broken.  We are not all in agreement with regard to how it should be fixed, however.

Your solutions to the mess have always been radical.  Lets fire state workers rather than furlough them.  This, despite the emotional and economic dislocation that would result, not to mention the enormous burden that would be placed on our unemploymet system, Medcaid, food pantries, and so on.

Let's rid our system of property rebates (a band aid, not a gimmick) because PB proceeds on 2 errenous assumptions: 1) that people who receive these rebates all voted for Christie,  and 2) rebates "offset much of the (municipal) taxes."

And, by all means, let's curtail, if not end, subsidies for public transportation.  We defintely need more cars on the road.  And if folks can't afford cars and can't afford to get to work, let them lose their jobs.  Or make them give up soda and beer and pizza and McDonalds to save some money to pay for a way to get to work.  Too fat and lazy anyway.

Ya know, I've got a different way to make NJ sustainable.  Forget pay to play, forget even pay go.  I say, pay to use.

So, I'd give up a property rebate (if I had one).  I'd pay more for public transportation, because I use it.

In exchange, I no longer wish to have any of my taxes go toward school system expenses, because I don't have any kids in school.  Let those people who don't understand birth control pay for their offspring's education.  They too, could save money, by home schooling.

And Heaven knows, except for one road, I have no use for county government.  Anyone who wants county services, whatever the Hell they are, should pay for them.  I'll pay for that 1 county road and some municipal roads too - as long as they are the ones I use to go to the store, the post office and, of course, to get outta town.

I don't know what you are smokin' PB, but could you please share it - in the interests of democratic socialism.  My wine budget is in shambles.

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by: SmartyJones @ Sat Mar 06, 2010 at 23:06:49 PM UTC

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Wow (0.00 / 0)

I can't say I could see that response coming.

I'll agree with you that I think radical solutions are needed.   We are going to need to lay off workers, get rid of rebates, reduce municipal aid, and school aid, as well as raise taxes.   I don't think anyone has put any plan on the table that solves NJ's problems that doesn't include these remedies.  

What progressives can bring to the table is where and how these cuts (and tax increases) are implemented.  One can downsize government in a responsible or an irresponsible way.  I fear Christie's way will be irresponsible, but his general path may be the only way.

If you've got a better plan, then please share it.  I have no desire for people to lose jobs.  I'd love for there to be an alternative plan.   I'm not sure the plan you put forward is going to be endorsed by anyone.

And yes, I did read the diary.  I'm not sure what your point was there.

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by: princetonblue @ Sun Mar 07, 2010 at 02:14:11 AM UTC

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Sham Wow (0.00 / 0)

I had a visceral response to the tone and content of your remarks.  They reminded me of the cringe-worthy comments one often reads on nj.com.

I read Jason's diary to mean that Christie is trying to backtrack on a campaign promise to plug the budget gap.  We all know Christie was intentionally vague on what he would cut.  Property tax rebates stood out clearly as something that would not be cut.  Whether or not one supported his candidacy, it would seem logical to believe him.

I agree with your 3rd graf.  All of these cuts, as well as new taxes, will have to be addressed as we plod through the difficult task of re-thinking our tax structure.

At this point I think Christie is being irresponsible.  His actions are really quite classic.  Let's have so called "reform" on the backs of the politically powerless.  You cannot believe Todd Christie and his cohorts are worried about property tax rebates or fare increases.  After all, they can pay those property taxes while sending their kids to private schools.

From an historical perspective, I disagree with you about who foments a revolt.  Although there are some notable examples of "little people" rising up (See, Cezar Chavez) most revolutions begin with middle class intelligentsia, who plot out a means and a method of revolt.  The "little people" are then organized to do the hard work.

Speaking of intelligentsia, Paul Mulshine is calling out Christie on the rebate business, but from a conservative R perspective.  (Did I just imply Mulshine was intelligent?  Oy!)

http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mu...

As for my so called political philosophy, I pulled it out of my arse.  I tried to make it so absurd, only a tea bagger might agree.  Imagine my surprise when I encountered a commenter at NJ.com who made the same suggestions.

Bring it on Jay.  ZZZZ.  Write a diary, Smarty.  Let's hear it for a 3.00.

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by: SmartyJones @ Sun Mar 07, 2010 at 13:38:51 PM UTC

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There's no alternative though (0.00 / 0)

I'm not outraged at Christie because I thought he was lying in the campaign.  There only appears one way to get NJ's budget back on track.  Even Gov. Corzine was following the same plan, though very slowly, and with some gimmicks that offset the benefits his cuts were having on the deficit.  

I know the pain that is coming to all of NJ, except for maybe the rich.   But what is the alternative plan?  I don't see any of the Democrats putting forward a different solution.   So far, all I see is criticism of Christie's decisions, rather than an alternative path.

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by: princetonblue @ Sun Mar 07, 2010 at 15:12:21 PM UTC

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Christie realizes (0.00 / 0)

by now that keeping the rebates will require cutting more aid to schools and towns . If you think that 's the way to keep the rebates your sadly mistaken  .As for raising taxes on the "rich" have you not seen the report that just proves it forces out more business and people to more favorable tax states .Service cuts and town consolidation ,along with letting people keep more of there own money (cutting taxes) is the only way to keep people here and promote growth  

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by: speedkillsu @ Sat Mar 06, 2010 at 21:04:01 PM UTC

lies (0.00 / 0)

there was a report a few years ago that completely refuted the "millionaire's flight", and the recent report doesn't conclude that either.

But you've never let facts get in the way of a  nonsensical post.

Scott Garrett - on the wrong side of, well, everything.

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by: Adam L @ Sat Mar 06, 2010 at 21:20:50 PM UTC

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False choices. (0.00 / 0)

That's all you ever present. I guess on other boards you go to, where everyone agrees with you and each other, they just accept your fake equations, but we don't.

Cutting aid to schools = Property tax rebates?

Where?

As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand.

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by: Jersey Shore John @ Sun Mar 07, 2010 at 12:35:31 PM UTC

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