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Live Blogging the 3rd Gubernatorial Debate

by: Jason Springer

Thu Oct 22, 2009 at 07:57:04 PM EDT



I'm here at the NJN radio studios in Trenton. The debate begins in a few minutes and then we'll do some post debate analysis live here on NJN radio. You can listen to the stream of the radio debate here and if you're around, join in on the liveblogging.

They're going up against the Yankee game again tonight. This is expected to be the last debate of the campaign as we only have 12 days until election day. WBGO Evening News Anchor Andrew Meyer and WBGO/WHYY State House Reporter Phil Gregory are the panelists.

I'm set up in the studio:

DSC04964

After the debate, it will be host Keith Farmer, myself, Michael Illions of Conservatives with Attitude and representatives from each campaign offering some analysis.
Jason Springer :: Live Blogging the 3rd Gubernatorial Debate
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Live Blogging the 3rd Gubernatorial Debate | 53 comments
um... (4.00 / 1)
that a phone in your pocket or are you happy to be liveblogging?

:-)

Scott Garrett - on the wrong side of, well, everything.

figured you'd go there (0.00 / 0)
and i took the phone out of my pocket.  that could be a caption contest in itself.
[ Parent ]
of course (4.00 / 1)
how could I pass up an opportunity to be crude and immature?

Scott Garrett - on the wrong side of, well, everything.
[ Parent ]
you stole my line n/t (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
Nice picture. (0.00 / 0)
Plenty of workspace,

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  
Clammy you stinker you n/t (0.00 / 0)


It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  
[ Parent ]
Bugs Bunny is my hero :-) (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
Christie starts (4.00 / 1)
gov't smaller, taxes that are lower, gov't that needs to be doing what needs to be done but not more than that.  Highest unemployment in the region.  Need change of course.

Corzine goes first. Corzine mentions longest deepest recession in 40 years.  Says he's provided 100k children with health insurance who didn't have.  Reduced uninsured by 150 k.  Provided record #'s with pre-school.  Made sure that we use every dollar that Obama offers in stimulus that is turning the state's economy and we'll get out sooner and stronger.  There are real choices, these results make a difference in people's lives.  Much done, more to do.

Daggett starts talking about Eagleton poll.  Says they're moving up again, now in the low 20's and his opponents have gone backwards since june.  Corzine because he has had failed fiscal policies and Christie because of campaign w/out substance.  He's the only one to propose cutting property, income and other taxes.  He's hoping to continue to debate issues and hear their plan.

Christie's Opening Statement Is Weak, But... (4.00 / 1)
....correct when he says there are clear and real differences between the candidates!  

Corzine sounds relaxed and confident and speaks in some detail about all of his pro child/education initiatives.

Daggett says he can win as his numbers are going up....and complains about the "negative" campaigns of his opponents.

my plan is... (0.00 / 0)
go with the Yankees but listen to you after the debate.


Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
Daggett asked 1 program to cut (4.00 / 1)
says no 1 program will substantially reduce spending.  Face 8 billion budget deficit and prop tax and corp tax burden that is harmful and imbalanced.  his plan will cut all taxes and put hard cap on municipal spending.  Hard cap will do more than anything else.  Can do more with shared services in municipalities.  Overall, most important thing is to right tax system that is out of balance.  His plan has been specific and detailed. His plan will restore fiscal sanity.

Corzine talks about cutting budget for first time 2 years in a row.  5 billion less than 2 years ago.  1.8 bill than 1st budget.  reducing the work force and have to keep that up.  provided 7 billion for prop tax rebates.  extended senior freez.  working on shared services and consolidations.  closing school districts that don't have kids going to school there.  going to keep pushing and like daggett, already have cap on taxes at local level.  making a difference and keep looking for consolidation and reduction in costs at state level.  

Christie says we need to start at 0 based budgeting.  can't assume each program needs to be renewed.  He's put forward specific proposals regarding property tax problem.  Not 1 easy answer to problem.  Proposed grant program to study to shared services.  Will enforce accountability for shared services.  Everything has to be on the table.  pension reform, tougher collective bargaining.

Daggett rebuttal says once again his opponents don't have a plan.  Talks about his plan.

Daggett says he's still waiting for specifics (0.00 / 0)
from his opponents.  If we don't address, we're kidding ourselves if we think we'll solve the problems.
crap (0.00 / 0)
I can't get the stream to work.  Tried 3 different ways.

Scott Garrett - on the wrong side of, well, everything.
try just tuning in to 820 AM on a radio nt (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
AM radio reception is horrible here (0.00 / 0)
lots of trees, bad cell reception inside the house, bad radio reception for AM as well.

Very annoying.

Scott Garrett - on the wrong side of, well, everything.

[ Parent ]
try wnyc.org live stream there (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
ahhhhhhhhh, there it goes (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
yayyy (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Asks Corzine how much you pay in property taxes (0.00 / 0)
Corzine says 35k or 36k in property taxes.  High burden for not Jon Corzine, but for alot of folks that struggle.  And we will do everything to try and get them lower.  Talks about school caps and if you don't have further reduction, will lower the caps again.  Will increase rebates back up and if have technology, will convert to credits.  Passed 1st school funding formula to clear the court which is putting money inot our schools which is a major driver of property taxes.  Have done things to set in motion for substantial consolidation of school districts.  Already giving grants.

Christie responds that he and his wife pay 38k in prop taxes per year.  Says how we're the highest prop taxed state in america. Christie goes after daggett saying his plan doesn't raise the sales tax by $4 million.  says you need a hard cap and reduce administrative costs.  The property tax problem is not one that will be solved at night or by gimmicks.  This will take a joint effort btwn state gov't putting pressure from top down and municipal gov't to put pressure on school officials.

Daggett says they pay 18k per year in prop taxes.  Says its a much greater burden for people in middle income levels of society. Daggett says we haven't had caps.  Average increase is 5.8%.  Cap in place has exception.  He's talking hard cap tied to consumer price index. That's how to stop prop tax problem is by stopping growth.  Daggett says Christie doesn't have a plan at all.  He keeps saying he has a plan, but never any details.  He put up a prop tax calculator so he doesn't have to buy it for Christie anymore.  You can put in your tax  info to see your cut he says. He says he's still waiting.

Corzine says he won't cut taxes on the very wealthy and corporation and insurance companies that leads to pressure on middle class families.  They are the ones who really suffer.  He absolutely wouldn't turn down $5 billion in federal stimulus funding which Christie has suggested which would automatically jacked up property taxes $2 billion.  Talks about how OLS says his plan would turn down money.

Christie made me sick (0.00 / 0)
The guy says he's going to cut billions and billions from the budget but postures on the arts funding.  

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
[ Parent ]
Myer Asks Corzine How Much He Pays In Property (0.00 / 0)
taxes...........Corzine says about 36K......and offers up his ideas for controlling Prop taxes......again, he sounds relaxed.

Christie says he pays 38k.   Says his plan won't increase sales taxes.  Cuts cuts caps and "no gimmicks".......all boilerplate, no real specifics.

Daggett pays 18k.  Talks about hight rates of increase and how he'll impose real "solid" acps.

Daggett also slams Christie for having no specifics and ofers to buy him another calculator.

Corzine rebuts buy promising to not cut taxes on the rich and the insurance companies etc and promises  not to decline federal dollars like Christie.

Asks about what assurance you can give people things will change (4.00 / 1)
Christie says we have to change course.  Christie says how will you create jobs if you don't cut taxes for businesses.  Says small business are backbone of the state.  Says we need to cut taxes on small business to start jobs.  Give prop tax relief in the short term so they can make ends meat so we don't have higher foreclosure rate, but doesn't say how.  Says our unemployment rate is higher because our tax policies have made us uncompetitive.  We have to do it by reducing tax burden.

Daggett says the best way to keep jobs in NJ is to take care of tax structure first.  Says we can cut corporate taxes on small business to provide 25% tax cut for property tax relief by expanding sales tax. It will make a fairer and more competitive system.  2nd, invest in higher education. Says we are the last state in the nation in investment for higher ed.  Must invest in green tech, bio tech, nano tech. He will find money to bring back investments in higher ed which bring jobs to nj.  develop collaborative relationships which we need to return to economic prosperity.

Corzine says he doesn't think Christie has followed what they've done with S-chapter reform.  Says we shouldn't provide tax cut to insurance company, big corporations and very wealthy.  We have to prepare nj for a better future.  Talks about jobs coming across the river to in Jersey, mentions Phizer staying in NJ.  Talks about Bausch Lomb and Bayer coming to NJ and looking at NJ.  Says we have best educated work force.  What we can't do is turn down stimulus funds.

Christie says he's followed reform well, but what he doesn't understand is that they use personal income tax to file their returns.  That will allow them to grow new jobs.  Says its astounding that Corzine doesn't get it and says things are going well.  Said we were turning the corner over the summer but unemployment has continued to rise. Says we need a change of course. The governor's policies have not worked.

Corzine Slams Christie For.... (4.00 / 1)
his proposal to give insurance companies "100 million dollar tax cuts".....then talks about the many large companies that come here and stay here.......

Chriistie rebuts with technicalities re subchapter s corp tax reform and calls for a "change of course"

just heard the Daggett radio commercial (0.00 / 0)
on the baseball radio... but it seems skipping the debate brought my tea bad luck. :(

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
Questions on environmental concerns (4.00 / 1)
Daggett talks about all he's done in the area of the environment Says he has a long track record that is greater and deeper than anyone who has run for governor.  first, need permanent source of funding for ocean space.  include home and condo rentals in sales tax to fund it.  proposed to continue implementing reforms to improve DEP to make more efficient and effective without stepping back from safety.  

Corzine says he is proud of record on the environment.  There is a fundamental endorsement by Obama who picked Lisa Jackson, only state commissioner who went into cabinet.  Talks about installing more solar panels than any other state than california.  have programs in place to permit out the largest offshore windfarms in north america.  Moving toimplement Daggett's report to get greater efficiency.  When you push, people in community think you're moving to fast.  Talks about the LSRP.  Says we've done alot in this area, but some is controversial.

Christie says he's proud NJ enviro fed has endorsed him.  Says his history as US attorney on offshore polluting and river dumping has forced polluters to spend more money and donate to those doing protections.  Very aggressive solar plan, end fishkill in barnegat bay, cool waters from the nuclear power point . Says they will move forward and correct those problems.

Daggett says he'd put his record against Christie and Corzine's all day long and all year.  I've lived it.  He says ocean dumping ended long before he was us attorney.  idea that he was involved was ludicrous.  must be aggressive to clean up brownfields that will be a part of restoring urban areas.  must be aggressive on water and air polution.  we can't rest on our laurels.  He will lead taht charge like no other person.

Question on Environment..... (4.00 / 1)
I missed Daggetts response.....

Corzine speaks of his "successful record" and having installed more solar panels than any other state except california and listed off about 6 specific items and summs up with a program to turn 20K brownfields into engines of economic activity.

Christie is bragging about an endorsement he got....and how he wants to rmediate sites that have been "abused in the past".......he sounds reasonable on the surface.   Stop killing the fishes with nuclear thermal pollution...

Daggett rebuts claiming proudly that he has best plan and calls out cc for being "ludicrous" in his claim.

Daggett promises to "lead the charge" on env

LOL (4.00 / 1)
just turned in on in time to hear Daggett hammer Christie on ocean cleanup.  


Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
uh (0.00 / 0)
How could Corzine be responsible for Ferriero being in power when he's just be convicted?  

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
Daggett pretty effective (0.00 / 0)
in condemning legal, but corrupt, uses of money.

Corzine talks about how he stood up for Weinberg and how we stopped Ferriero.

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

[ Parent ]
Question to Corzine on corruption (4.00 / 1)
what more can you do to prevent.

Corzine says anyone who breaks the law and breaks the public trust should be held accountable.  I commend any and all that pursue corruption.  Talks about what his AG has done.  Says she's gone directly at his own party, only indcited in the legislature were democrats, 5.  Also laid down the strongest pay to play laws in the country.  No bid contracts are out of possibility, ended dual office holding, ended christmas tree/earmarks, reform of party system proposed by Senator Weinberg which has more transparency in party politics.  Today we saw a conviction and he took on Joe Ferriero himself.

Christie says over the last 7 years, he's committed his career and that of others to putting spotlight on corruption. In '06 and '07, there were no more corruption prosecutions than nj.  Today was another sad day as Joe Ferriero, the former BCDO chair was convicted of corruption political system.  Sad fact is that while he believes the gov is an honest man, his money has enabled people like joe ferriero to remain in power.  Says his AG's office has given out 90 million in no bid contracts.  Pay to play will be over when you apply to everyone like labor unions, then we'll have fair reform.

Daggett says the best way to stop corruption is lead by example.  People who broke law have been brought to justice.  Corruption that occurs under cover of law.  Dual office holding, pension padding, people who game system.  Have to end that process and do it now.  Must lead by example.  Talks about opponents using money to get around system.  Says it's wrong in that it breeds the idea of what is the money going for.  Christie as had his brother give 200k to RGA to get around system in NJ to run negative ads attacking him, just as  Corzine has done with DGA.  If you're gonna live by it, live by it.  Don't try to go around system.

Corzine says money he gave to BCDO was to elect other democrats without the circumvention.  Wants to be focused on making successful campaigns in NJ.  Idea that he enabled Joe Ferriero when he stood up to him with Weinberg is a joke.  The reality is that we stopped Joe Ferriero long before the federal gov't intervened and he'll do again.

Q to JC On Corruption.... (0.00 / 0)
.....JC brags 0f many indictments and convictions (252?)

strongest antipay2play laws in country

end dual offc holding, earmarks, brags about party dem act/weinberg and also take prode in seeing ferriero convicted today

Christie......also proud of his record and says "today, another sad day in NJ as Joe Ferriero is convicted"

Then he slams Corzine for giving money to people like Ferriero....calls dor Pay2{lay reform to apply to unions too

Daggett says to set a good example......and thet the legalized corruption is the worst and to "do it now".  He complains that his opponents have played the pay2lay laws...

Chris Chritie's brother sneaks money into campaign by going to national party

Corzione rebuts sayiong he gives no checks to Ferriero; bit to legitimate party activities amd is only "focused on successful campaigns"  and also says it's a "joke" to imply he and loretta didn't do all they could to clean up corrupotion and that they "stopped" Ferriero long before the feds got "involved"

Daggett takes every opportunity to hit (0.00 / 0)
both parties.  I think he's doing well.

Corzine sounds strong too.


Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

Question on arts funding (0.00 / 0)
hotel/motel tax dedicated to funding to the arts, but that's shrunk.

Christie says you can't justify not giving the arts what they're due.  He says the law should be followed.  In the end, you need to comply with 2003 law.  If you've dedicated portion, the arts should be funded in that way.  Says arts are economic engine.  Talks about success of NJPAC. Just need to follow the law, thats why Kean spoke out against cutting funding.

Daggett says never acceptable divert money from programs that are set up for one thing.  Done by both D's and R's.  Talks about unemployment insurance fund and balancing budgets through funding tricks.  specifically on the arts, he proposed tripling tourism funding through his expanded sales tax to promote thngs that will attract people.  People turn to the arts in a bad economy. Talks about doing challenge grants.

Corzine says he wants to get something straight. Says he complied with legislation, there was full funding up to the numer.  This gets at the heart of what tough choices are about.  He loves the arts, has invested seriously, but when you have tough choices, if you're gonna fund pre-school, healthcare, most core basic needs, have to make tough choices.  Can't reduce by almost 5 billion in the budget w/out tough outcomes.  I care more about making certain that we fund our food banks adequately, that we fund legal services. Says funding is down because in constrained world, have to make tough choices.

Christie says statute is what statute is. Says that the legislature circumvented the rules.  When people have tax increase for certain purpose, have to keep faith with certain purpose.  we have to keep faith when it's difficult to do it. Talks about Kean speaking out again.

Daggett's right (0.00 / 0)
Where the hell did the school construction money go? There should be an investigation.

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
School construction question (4.00 / 1)
we were testing the mics here to go live.  We will have Joe Kyrillos from the Christie campaign, Joe Cryan for the Corzine campaign and William Hillsman calling in to join us for the post debate analysis.
Corzine just posted on facebook (0.00 / 0)
As freeholder, Christie voted for 440 no-bid contracts, including >50 for his campaign contributors & quickly abandoned his reform efforts.


Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
Q For Daggett On School Development (4.00 / 1)
....D says first round of cash wasted on consultants.....and that this waste needs to be investigatted.

More funding in place now...but we need toacess the proceess not just borow more.  Also wants to find ways to build well for less money...no "Taj Mahal Settings".    Sounds like a good fiscal consv.

Corzine says that this is a success for his people.  Coming in under budget (on second round) also brings up 5 or so specifics and talks about how the children are positively affected and gives a story about the Oliver street school in the ironbound sec of newark and how "unacceptable" it was....this is why we need this program to work.

Christie complains of past waste and speaks of new "models" for schools that will get the job done for less money...and demands voter approval.

Daggett rebuts with his credential as Dr of education and rattles off concrete examples of what still needs to be done and ridicules Christie's call for only "two" models for schools.   (I guess he means architectural models?)

Question regarding LG (4.00 / 1)
what will you have LG do more than collect paycheck or keep seat warm.

Says he's extremely proud of Loretta Weinberg, most uncorruptable record who has pushed back against Joe Ferriero.  Will use her as a full partner in every aspect of governing.  Expects her to be at the table for all meetings.  Talks about her working on children and families.  Says he doesn't think pre-school is babysitting.

Christie says Kim Guadagno has truly burst on the scene as someone who is tough, articulate and smart.  will be a full partner governing nj.  First, head red tape review group on business and unfunded mandates.  How can eliminate regulations to make business more efficient.  Establish partnership for action, one stop shop to help develop jobs to make maze of going through state and local government easier.  Will be the last person he speaks to on everything.  She shares his passion. She showed intelligence and straightforwardness.

Daggett says he selected Frank Esposito because he has long track record of service in education. Talks about his work with charter schools and Kean University and absorbing budget cuts.  Shows you can do what they've talked about successfully without harming alot of people.  Daggett wants him to be involved in higher ed and jobs creation.  When we invest in higher ed, green tech, nano tech, io tech and improve research facilities.  Will do the kinds of things that bring jobs back to the state and keep them here.

Corzine says Loretta has been called the conscience of the legislature.  Carries conscience and  values of NJ famillies.  We will pick 4 of 7 supreme court justices on women's right to choose, through and efficient education.  Serious contrast with Christie and himself.  Christie chose Sam Alito.  Corzine took Steven Breyer.

Q to JC on LG (4.00 / 1)
JC says he's proud of loretta and expects her to be at the cabinet table in all meetings!  (COOL!!!)

Will ask loretta to make sure all positive activities are carried out....

Christie says Guadagno is "tough articulate and smart" and that she will be given specific tasks on making government more affordable,,,she will chair "partnershi for action"...and will be the "last person he'll speak to on every issue".....sounds good

Daggett praises frank esposito and lauds his resume and great back ground in education experience...wants FE to be "involved in ......jobs creation......collaborative rel with corporations"

Corzine Reputs....LW is "Conscience of the legislature...and I will use her on every decision that involves judging people including supreme court judges......points out the "serious contrast" bet him and Chritioe who likes Alito (the right wing asshole)  Again,, sounds great!!!

Closing statements (0.00 / 0)
Thanks everyone.  NJ is at a crossroads.  Talks about reducing taxes.

Daggett says their underdog and unfunded campaign promised to tell truth and they have.  Promised to cut taxes and they delivered.  Election is now in your hands.  One day every 4 years that you hold all the power in NJ.  That day is on Nov. 3.  D's and R's have made a mess of the state and neither opponent has a plan.  It's time to stand up for NJ.  If people thought he could win, they'd vote for him.  He needs 34, 35, 36% to win.  It's never wrong to vote for the right person.

Corzine says they will expand prop tax relief for citizens.  expanded senior freeze.  Christie would have cut taxes on wealthy making virtually impossible to provide property tax relief.  Will make sure we continue to provide early childhood education to turn around economy sooner and stronger.

Corzine's Summation..... (0.00 / 0)
Elections matter...choices are rel/strk

I'll fight for what matters most for NJ families....lists about 9 specific items in an animated tone and is cut off by the  moderator in mid sentence....JC was building up some steam!
He came off as the most informed and the most concrete tonight...and also sounded quite confident!!!

rel/strk means real stark (sorry) n/t (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
live blogging the Jason Springer show (0.00 / 0)
Q1: Do debates matter?


Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
Jason has good answer (0.00 / 0)
Media coverage can make it more important. This debate had more content. Michael agreeing with Jason, Jason agreeing with Michael.  So nice!  :)


Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
[ Parent ]
haha (0.00 / 0)
we have Senator Kyrillos on the line now.  He thought his candidate did well. Asking him if debates have an effect on the election. Kyrillos said he'd love if more people heard or saw the debate.  Most people will not have heard about the debate.  He thinks obviously they're important for people who tuned in and have watched in recent weeks.  It makes an impression.
[ Parent ]
Kyrillos going on and on (0.00 / 0)
and getting to propaganda, saying Daggett has no chance, doesn't really have a plan, blah blah.  Quite nasty, if pleasantly delivered.

Fortunately the phone drops out and the moderator must turn to Jason and Michael.

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

[ Parent ]
Michael praises Christie (0.00 / 0)
not very surprising, then notes that Daggett proved he was a viable candidate.

Jason talks about Corzine defending his record. Then Christie not having numbers that add up.  Praises Daggett substance. Points out Christie spent time attacking Daggett, Daggett is a factor.

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

[ Parent ]
oops (0.00 / 0)
I was enjoying the conversation so much I didn't write anything. The Daggett surrogate is doing fine.

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
[ Parent ]
Weinberg statement (0.00 / 0)
"Tonight, Governor Corzine demonstrated clearly that he is the candidate who will fight for what matters to New Jersey in these tough economic times. He's fought every day for New Jersey families- expanding health care coverage for almost 100,000 additional children and passing paid family leave. These are the right choices for New Jersey and the right priorities for the next four years.

Chris Christie, on the other hand, is more concerned with tax breaks for giant corporations and the very wealthy than fighting for average middle class New Jersey families. Twelve days from today New Jerseyans across this state will re-elect Governor Corzine and reject the right wing Republican policies offered by Chris Christie."



Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
Cryan statement (0.00 / 0)
"In tonight's debate, Governor Corzine demonstrated that he is fighting for what matters to New Jersey families and  making the tough decisions to get the economy back on track.  The global economic crisis facing this nation and New Jersey was caused by the Bush policies of tax breaks for giant corporations and the wealthiest, which have only increased the burden on the middle class. Unfortunately, those are exactly the policies that Chris Christie wants to impose on New Jersey during this crisis.

"Governor Corzine is the only candidate in this race who is fighting to expand health care for children, who has cut spending while investing in education, and who will work with President Obama to implement recovery plans aimed at saving and creating small business jobs in New Jersey."



Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
[ Parent ]
great job Jason (0.00 / 0)
(And if Michael reads this, to him too.) It was a great discussion.

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch
Michael & Jason (4.00 / 1)
You were both great. I couldn't listen to all of it, because I was on the phone all night with some DFA work, but every time I turned up the volume on the live audio stream I loved what I was hearing.

You both were such good representatives of very different points of view. And it was a watershed moment for NJ political new media that you both were invited by the venerable NJN, and that you both were so honest, direct and interesting.  

Really Jason, it was a pleasure to listen to.  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

[ Parent ]
Thank you both (0.00 / 0)
it was a real good time and I think NJN enjoyed how it went as well.
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