End of Democracy in NJ

Ahem (4.00 / 1)

most of the posters on this site have helped mightily bring down the Boss of the North.  I have tried to explain blow by blow how we did it so that folks across the state can try it in their districts too.  

You need to read my diary on Ferriero and Oury if you think for even ONE second that Democrats didn't fight like hell to end Pay to Play in NJ and Bossism in Bergen County.

One Vote.  Yours.  It really does matter.

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by: carolh @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 03:18:37 AM UTC

I agree (4.00 / 2)

Dear Carol,

I didn't mean to imply that most posters here at BJ are justifying the Boss politics.  The work against Ferriero and Oury was great and is one of the reasons I've spent so much time here at BJ in the past few years.   But I'm still shocked that there are still quite a few bloggers here who either don't care about the boss politics or willingly ignore it because they agree with some of the policies that the bosses have produced (such as Sweeney's role in PFL).

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by: princetonblue @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 15:03:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Me too, except how many are there? (4.00 / 1)

I think there a lot of such posts from very few posters, chief among them firstamen07, who may be presumed to be part of Sweeney's operation, seeing as how he said he was in the room and is always claiming inside knowledge. There are a few others, again, from the southern part of the state, who are apologists for bossism in the instance of Sweeney. But I don't see anyone from Middlesex (like me) defending the nature of that machine, nor anyone else the from north of Trenton, with the exception of one person (I forget who) was defending Ferriero many months ago.

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by: Dvd Avins @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 16:25:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

what progressive policies? (3.00 / 1)

Any progressive policies that have come out of Trenton this decade have either survived the opposition of the bosses/machines or were a bone thrown to progressives, because they did not challenge the power structure of the bosses/machines in any way.

That said, nobody should be shocked by this.  This is the way that NJ politics have always been and this is the way that they will always be until progressives do more than blog and talk and begin to organize at the grassroots level against the bosses/machines.

If Corzine loses this election, it is because he has failed miserably to take control of his own party.  He could have personally financed a grassroots revolution the day after he was elected Governor in November 2005 and could have run his own slate of legislative candidates throughout the state in 2007, but he didn't.

He has been the worst Democratic Governor in my lifetime (born in 1971) and the only reason that he has been more of a disappointment than Jim McGreevey is because I never expected anything positive from McGreevey.  I never expected much from Corzine either, but I still expected more than what he has been.

If he survives this election, I hope that he will have learned from his failures over the last four years.  The future of our state will depend upon it.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 03:27:21 AM UTC

I strongly disagree (0.00 / 0)

Corzine is being blamed for the worldwide financial meltdown.  That is not accurate or fair.  Loretta Weinberg was the sponsor of MANY progressive bills to come out of the legislature and Corzine signed many of them.  Corzine is quick to support marriage equality - a progressive goal

You sound quite jaded.  You shouldn't be.  Ferriero is on trial today.  Nothing worthwhile is ever easy.  Convincing folks you have a chance to change things is always the toughest part of reform.

One Vote.  Yours.  It really does matter.

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by: carolh @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 03:43:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wait a minute... (4.00 / 2)

I think what Rachel'sdad is saying is basically my argument. Corzine wasn't just another Dem governor. He had the money to be widly independent, he easily could have financed a campaign to outlaw dual office holding completely, but kowtow'd to those Hudson guys who got themselves grandfathered. That's just a small example...

Point is, I had expected much more from him in terms of shaking up the establishment... there has been too much go along to get along in his administration in my opinion.

PS. he's still 'in despair' I'd imagine because the legislature didn't take up ethics reform.. I bet if he told Codey/Roberts that he would pour 10 million into their distircts to unseat them, ethics reform would have been suddenly been on their agendas...


"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 14:14:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

PS. That said... (0.00 / 0)

I wasn't a fan of Codey. But I have to agree with PB, it does seem a little seedy the way he's been outmanuvered so far... (although to be fair, I wasn't aware of any machinations to get him to that position in the first place, he may have pulled the same crap)

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 14:20:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Loretta is great, but Corzine is mediocre at best (0.00 / 0)

I love you like a sister, Carol, but Loretta has been fighting battles within our party for a very long time, and not just in Bergen County.  It was great that Corzine backed her during the State Senate battle a few years ago, but on issues like marriage equality, he has been useless.  He has been all over the place on this issue since he ran for the U.S. Senate back in 2000.

There is so much that Corzine could have been and done, but on every issue imaginable, he has been a complete and total disappointment.  That said, I hope that he wins in November, but that is only because he is the lesser of two evils and being LG could position Loretta to run for Governor in 2013.

Who knows?  Maybe Obama will offer Corzine a job in Washington and Loretta can become Governor before then.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 14:31:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Loretta v. Corzine (4.00 / 2)

Are we best represented by Loretta Weinberg?
Yes, we are. Of the handful of solid progressives in the statehouse, she is the most solid, the most fearless, and hell, the most fun, too. Honestly, I love the woman like a relative. Mushy, mushy love.

That said, we have the candidates that we have. Neither of them is perfect. But we have a governor who's ready to sign for marriage equality, which is the next biggest issue on our horizon. Damn what happened before, and beyond lobbying him to the left and knowing our history, I don't care what happened in the past.

This race is stark. The differences are extraordinary. And the governor you complain about, Bertin, chose the running mate you adore. She's there, and that means we're there.

Let's go.  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 15:04:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bottom Line: We Must Back Corzine All The Way!!! (0.00 / 0)

Believe me, I know he's far from pefect.  Very far.   But the prospect of a Christie win because good Democrats like Bertin might stay home is not acceptable.

Corzine WILL do the right things ONLY if he is forced and pressed to do so.  He is amenable to REAL pressure from decent people.....without it, he will cave toward the side of the developers etc.  But his INCLINATIONS are good.

If Christie gets in there is no chance of anything remotely good/decent happening.  None.

What we need to be about is building a progressive (i..e "TRUE BLUE") movement in NJ.

When we can have 50K people outside the statehouse ON A WEEKDAY demanding the passage of a progressive agenda...we may begin to offset the power of the lobbyists and the money that corrupts our lawmakers.

It's tragic....but it seems that almost no one in politics does what is right simply BECAUSE it is right....they all need to be pressured and threatened with the loss of their jobs.

And if we can build up enough of a progressive movement; then guess what.....we can have a legislature of 90% people like Loretta Weinberg!

That will take time.   Right now, we need to deal with defeating Chris Christie.

 

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by: Nick Lento @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 16:38:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I never said I that I would stay home (4.00 / 3)

Corzine won my vote the day that he announced that Loretta Weinberg would be his LG and I have let it be known to people associated with his campaign that I am available to help.

This conversation was never supposed to be about Corzine and Christie as much as the state of the Democratic Party and democracy in NJ.

With Steve Sweeney and Joe Cryan (my prediction) running the legislature beginning next year, it becomes even more important than ever that Corzine be re-elected, because those two, especially Sweeney, would be only too happy to make compromises with a Christie administration that serves the best interest of the bosses/machines that they report to over the needs of the people.

That said, I don't believe that there is any harm in progressives honestly assessing the failures of the last four years and using them as a lens for the kind of change we need to make happen over the next four years.

It is also essential that progressives educate themselves not only about the issues that matter most to them, but also about the insider games regarding leadership positions and district maps.

Decisions that get made over the next two years are going to have a huge impact on the policies that come out of Trenton over the decade that follows.

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by: Bertin Lefkovic @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 18:02:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A thought on this (4.00 / 1)

What creates an electoral win.  Is it money?  Is it power?  In NJ, it appears you need both. Corzine had the money so he didn't need that, but boots on the ground in an election mean everything here.  Without the rank and file turning out in an ORGANIZED way, it is hard to win here.  Which is why even when your motives are pure, you still need the help of the Democratic Committees. Without the help of the rank and file, a Governor with pure motives and no need of money can't reach the voters.  Ferriero all but told Corzine to try and win the Governorship without his help when he had the audacity to support Loretta.  Corzine had to work with the Committee Chairmen elected by the Committees across the state. It was WE who let HIM down by allowing the Bosses to control OUR counties - which is why the Party Democracy Act is so important.  

An honest Governor cannot be effective until and unless we take responsibility for bringing democracy back to our County Committees who work hard to choose the next elected officials who will carry out the long term goals of a Governor's administration.

One Vote.  Yours.  It really does matter.

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by: carolh @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 17:19:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

'Twould Be Nice To Have The PDA Signed Before The Election (0.00 / 0)

I can only think of one reason why that hasn't happened yet and I don't like it.  

It passed in June, lets get it signed and send the people (the ordinary working stiffs who PAY ALL THE TAXES!!!) a message that the days of machine rule are (starting to be) OVER!!!

 

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by: Nick Lento @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 18:52:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

it's been signed (finally) (0.00 / 0)

Frank LoBiondo Record and Jon Runyan Watch

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by: Hopeful @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 22:36:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Weinberg (4.00 / 1)

Weinberg's the reason I'm supporting Corzine.  Had he picked someone like Sweeney, I would have sat it out or voted for someone like Greg Pason.

Weinberg almost singlehandedly makes up for the sleazebags and crooks, like Sweeny, Lesniak, James and Bryant, that have populated the Democratic Senate caucus.  Almost.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 17:35:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If Corzine WIns.... (0.00 / 0)

...he will owe it to the progressive base who have stood with him through all the garbage.

He will owe us, and we will have to stay on his case for the next four years to make sure he doesn't forget.  

But first things first, and that's the dismantlement of the Christie candidacy.......which richly deserves to be eviscerated.

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by: Nick Lento @ Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 18:46:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What we need apparently... (4.00 / 1)

is for Corzine to give his money to Loretta.

That's seems the best formula for radical reform.

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

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by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Sat Oct 03, 2009 at 00:19:32 AM UTC

Holier than thou Group (2.00 / 1)

I just read 17 posts and I must say that everyone seems to like the sausage but you all hate the way it is made.

You certainly like it when "your "issues are brought up and made law ( minimum wage hike, paid family leave,etc) but you preach that you oppose the process.

Well it is time to wake up and see  the real world.

Like it or not it was Sweeney who got those things that you favor done in the Senate.

Like it or not but it will be due to a large GOTV ,organized by the very "demons" who you dislike ,who will pull this election out for Corzine.

These evil "machines" are what will keep Christie out of the Governors office.

You know it, I know it, but you attack people like me who say it.

Sweeney's "machine" is Labor. You want to see his "evil "crowd then come on down to Atlantic City on Wednesday and attend the AFL-CIO gathering and listen to Joe Biden "beg" that "machine " to get out the vote.

Please, everyone ,stop the pontificating and stop the holier then thou talk.

You are all as guilty( or innocent!) of some form of "machine " politics. The difference between us is that I admit it and you don't.

Sweeney believes in many of the same things most of you believe but because he is a life long friend of the Norcross family you attack him.

Thereare 5,000 familes,right now ,who are benefitting from Paid Family Leave ,not because of anyone here,but because Sweeney kept up the fight for three years to get that law passed.

So lets all come down from the high horses and live in the real world.

Don't like what I said? Fire away. But please think before you write.      

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by: firstamend07 @ Sat Oct 03, 2009 at 02:33:11 AM UTC

The PROCESS matters (4.00 / 1)

it should be open and democratic.  Folks who believe that folks like Ferriero and Norcross walk on water are making us LOSE Democrats.  And THAT is what will ultimately LOSE us elections.

The Process to choose the next head of the Legislature in Trenton MUST BE done HONESTLY.  Or we will not recruit enough young folks to replace your old "machines" when they break down.

One Vote.  Yours.  It really does matter.

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by: carolh @ Sat Oct 03, 2009 at 23:31:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Whatever Good Progressive Legislation... (0.00 / 0)

...comes out of the sausage factory comes out despite the efforts of the machines, not because of them.

Even the machines know that they need some support from grass roots activists (if only for cosmetic purposes) so they throw out a few bones now and then.

I still remember how Sweeney did and does all he can to sabotage Rush Holt's effort to have more honest and cheaper voting machines in NJ...and how Sweeney and the machines love their Sequoia voting MACHINE vendors.

Why the **** would you want to have voting machines being used that can be so easily hacked???

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by: Nick Lento @ Wed Oct 07, 2009 at 17:15:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Voting Machines? (0.00 / 0)

Why don't you blame the Iraq war on Sweeney?

Give it up already. Your credibility is just about shot with some of these silly arguments.

I would respect your opinion much more if you just tell the truth.

You personally dislike Norcross and you personally dislike Sweeney. Whatever they do or say will not be good enough for you .Even if they fight your battles and win ( paid family leave) you would still be a hater.

So lets just cut through the crap. Your a Hater.  

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by: firstamend07 @ Wed Oct 07, 2009 at 18:18:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Now You Call Me A Liar And A "Hater" (0.00 / 0)

First, you are once again 100% dead wrong.

Sweeney did oppose Rush Holt's initiative in reforming our use of Sequoia voting machines and the proof is right here on site.

http://www.bluejersey.net/diar...

http://www.bluejersey.net/diar...

Further, I don't harbor hatred for people I don't even know.  In fact the one encounter in which I met Sweeney, he was actually quite polite.

What I hate is corruption and machine politics...and that's your problem.

Face it first, you've been busted yet again!  Your hostility and loathing for all things progressive is clear.  You, like Senator Sweeney, are owned by George Norcross, and that too is clear.

Be proud!  Come out of the closet.  tell us who you are and put your loyalty to Norcross in a real context.   Show some courage.  

Unless of course, you're in this for some kind of money or favor from Norcross; then....if that were true; you would just be a......

:-)

 

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by: Nick Lento @ Wed Oct 07, 2009 at 22:09:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why so obsessed? (0.00 / 0)

Truce!

No more mud throwing until after the election.

We will never agree on tactics, but I think we agree on goals.

As an  aside, I never met George Norcross in my life and he certainly has never added to my bank account!  

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by: firstamend07 @ Thu Oct 08, 2009 at 00:16:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]