Zimmer Concedes To Cammarano

A new low... (4.00 / 1)

What proof do you have that Cammarano stole the election? The fact that the margin was close and he had a large majority of absentee ballots go his way?

Well guess what: they ran a targeted vote-by-mail program, it was party of the campaign strategy from the beginning.  Zimmer did the same thing when she won her Council seat.

By your rationale Zimmer stole her ward race for Council, or Al Franken stole the Senate seat in Minnesota.  

Your over-the-top rhetoric is getting old, especially since you have no real proof to back any of your accusations.  

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by: Matthew Jordan @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 15:07:10 PM UTC

vote-by-mail meme (2.00 / 1)

MJ says, "they ran a targeted vote-by-mail program"

As opposed to what?  what other kind of vote-by-mail program is there?  I have never heard of a non-targeted vote by mail program before.  

activist for hire.

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by: Jay Lassiter @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 16:49:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

they had their base voting by mail.... (0.00 / 0)

in case it did some thing like...rain, which it did!

Targeted vote-by-mail is encouraging everyone to vote by mail, as opposed to what some campaigns do, and just have seniors or soft voters vote-by-mail.

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by: Matthew Jordan @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 16:55:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Proof, Nick? Anybody? (4.00 / 2)

If there's a case to be made it should be made, and Zimmer supporters are welcome to make it here.

But be forewarned that any case has to stand scrutiny. These are pretty big charges to hurl around so casually.

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 17:40:37 PM UTC

Proof? Are You Serious? (1.00 / 1)

If I had iron clad "proof" it would be in the hands of a federal prosecutor right now.  

Zimmer herself refers to (emphasis added)

"anecdotal evidence of serious improprieties"

I worked as a volunteer for her on election day and heard a bunch of "stuff" and did see direct evidence that the police were being extremely co-operative with the Cammarano campaign in ways that conveyed the message to every person walking past the Zimmer headquarters that the cops were on the Cammarano side.  That alone should be grounds for a federal investigation.  

There was a shiny new looking Hummer (that was plastered with Cammarano signs/pics) parked in front of the Zimmer headquarters for days.  There are limits to how long you can park on Washington street.   No tickets were on that Hummer.  It was not booted and was not towed.

That's just one tiny, but telling, example of how the cops saw Cammarano as their patron.  

I wonder how many people in Hoboken were intimidated from taking part in any volunteer activities, or putting up a sign or a bumpersticker on ther cars...or wearing a teeshirt for Zimmer (or Mason) because they were concerned about getting on the wrong side of the cops?  

Again, just that one incident alone is indicative of a the kind of aggressive intimidating tone that is set when you dare to run against the candidate of the Hudson County Machine.

Further, I would like to see a federal investigation into the way the absentee voters were recruited to vote.   I heard a story (yes, an anecdote) that Cammarano paid for a busload (or busloads?) of seniors to go to Atlantic city.  Were any of those folks "assisted" in any way to write up an absentee ballot for Cammarano?  How many of them were among the ballots that voted absentee?

Zimmer's campaign material referred to all manner of Cammarano connections to contributions from developers who had/have a big money interest in developing Hoboken in ways that would make lots of money for them but that would not be in the best interests of the whole town.   I don't believe she just made that stuff up.  It was the substance of her opposition to Cammarano and no doubt that it was a good part of why Peter Cammarano lost the actual vote at the polls.

The absentee ballots were for Cammarano in extremely disproportionate numbers.   It's very suspicious.

The good thing is that the reform ticket actually won a majority of the town council, so maybe they can hold their coalition together to prevent any further selling out of Hoboken to toxic development.  

No doubt all manner of pressure and bribes/incentives (mostly legal no doubt....in NJ some pay to play and cronyism is still quite legal)  will be brought to bear to try to peel off any anti-machine votes.

In addition there were, literally, hundreds of New York City people that had seen offers of being paid $200.00 in cash for a few hours of work that were directed, by the Cammarano campaign to Zimmer headquarters.   Some of these people were (understandably) irate at having been conned into coming into New Jersey under false pretenses.   What the Cammarano campaign did to those people was dishonest and sleazy at best....and if the practice wans't illegal it damn well should have been.   It caused great consternation and inconvenience and distraction to the Zimmer campaign ON ELECTION DAY!!!  No doubt some actions that may have garnered more votes for her were hampered.

Fortunately, there was no violence that I heard of; but to offer anyone walking through Washington Square park two hundred bucks for a few hours of their time and to promise them that no one would be turned away and to then direct them to a place where they would indeed be turned away is an invitation for TROUBLE!!!   Thank God it didn't turn ugolier than it was thanks to some very diplomatic actions on the part of the Zimmer people that had to deal with the crowds showing up from New York City.

There is a pattern here, one that deserves to be investigated by the proper authorities.   People need to be interviewed by federal law enforcement officials and subpoenaed so that they can be deposed under oath.

Oh, and let's not forget that the optical scanner machine that was supposed to read the absentee ballots on election night just "happened" to have  breakdown.   What are the odds against that, eh?  

Why would someone cheat to win an election in Hoboken?   The $take$ are high.   Rampant development vs careful development that is restricted to what is best for the town cold mean a difference of many hundreds of millions of dollars of spending.   That's lots of profits to developers and contractors who make lots of "contributions" to local and county and state officials.   That kind of cash motivates people to do all manner of things they might not otherwise perpetrate.

The whole thing stinks of conflicts of interest and corruption.

I was told that the LOWEST paid cops in Hoboken are making over 80K a year....and while I do not begrudge them earning a good living, the question needs to be raised as to why they make so much more there than in similar communities in NJ.   What is being bought and paid for with all that money?

Hoboken is just one town, I have no doubt that if a task force of a couple of hundred feds actually spent a year scrutinizing most of New Jersey's town's (especially in Hudson, Bergen and Essex) that they would find all manner of reasons to make use of the RICO statutes......Chris Christie actually had the means and the opportunity to do things like that; but he failed to.   Christie just went after a few stupid assholes and some low hanging fruit.  Christie is/was part of the problem not the solution.

The problems of corruption in NJ are systemic...and nothing short of systemic solutions will be effective.

We have too many smart ambitious political operatives (young and old) in this state who see being soft on corruption as the way to advance their own careers.  We have too many "non-profits" who see "playing ball" with corrupt elements as a way to stay "in the money" and to keep getting profitable contracts.  

All I'm saying is that something very very fishy happened in Hoboken on election day and that I find the results uncredible and that there should be a serious federal investigation.    

Someone at the federal level has to begin the process of enforcing the laws in New jersey and of pulling at some loose threads just as they would in any organized crime investigation of a drug cartel etc.   You start at the bottom and work your way up.

If nothing illegal was done, then no one should object to an investigation...further, if things that were corrupt were done but they were actually LEGAL, then we need to be about writing some new pay to play/ethics laws, eh?

And finally, how does Peter Cammarano get a free pass from ELEC on the timely reporting of his campaign contributions?  

http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/i...

Sorry folks, this situation stinks to high heaven and deserves some serious scrutiny by the authorities....and since apparently no one in NJ is going to do it; that's why we have a federal government to step in.

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by: Nick Lento @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 19:58:15 PM UTC

Nick you know... (0.00 / 0)

the Gettsyburg Address was only 272 words, maybe you should take a lesson from Lincoln.  

All of your "proof" is mostly hearsay or assumptions on your part.  Nothing fishy happened, Zimmer just lost.  

Was there something fishy in Zimmer's victory over Chris Campos that she won by less than 40 votes (with a lot of assistance from the HCDO I might add).  Is Carol Marsh still a reformer even though she was the Vice Chair of the HCDO, or Ravi Bhalla who has a contract with Union City and connections to Brian Stack as a rent control attorney?

The NYC people came to Cammarano's HQ also, and they had to call the police to make them leave, you have no proof that the Cammarano campaign put up those fliers.

That Hummer's owner was feeding the meter, that's why it never got a ticket.  

You're analysis and opinion are over the top and unproductive and if you respond, please make it shorter than War & Peace.  

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by: Matthew Jordan @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 20:10:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

For those (4.00 / 2)

new to playing our game here, Matt Jordan has worked for the Cammarano campaign, a disclaimer he's made before here, but not in this comment.

I just want that straight, in fairness.  

It's not a particularly snappy signature, but here's what I think we need in the next NJ Democratic State Chair.  

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by: Rosi Efthim @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 20:42:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks Rosi... (2.00 / 1)

I should have mentioned that earlier.  

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by: Matthew Jordan @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 20:46:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Lots Of Smoke.... (0.00 / 0)

Your defense is nothing less than expected.  It comes down to who you believe.

However, a real investigation, by real Feds would, I strongly suspect, unearth some truths that would be unpleasant for lots of folk.

There's a lot of dirt in Hoboken and it may well be that no one's hands are perfectly clean in that town.

There's been many hundreds of millions of dollars worth of "development" in that "Gold Coast" town and lots of ratables and tax monies generated; but the town is still so broke that it needed to be supervised by the state.  Where did all the money go?  Why are municipal employees in Hoboken paid so much more than elsewhere in the state?   What's being covered up there?

The corruption in Hoboken is thick indeed; that's another reason why there needs to be a federal investigation.

I doubt that it's legal to keep the same parking space and "feed the meter" for days on end(I know that for a fact that folks used to get ticketed for that in Hackensack because spots on the main drag are supposed to be kept fluid)....the tactic was a kind of bullying/intimidation tactic that you can get away with if it's known that the cops are on your side.  

If you think my comment was long winded, wait til this ends up in some kind of court proceeding, if that happens the amount of legal verbiage and jousting and depositions etc etc etc will fill up many thousands of pages.

Will Obama's justice department pick up on any of this, frankly I doubt it.   But anyone who knows NJ politics knows that this kind of garbage is common, certainly in Hoboken and Hudson County.

Could it be proven?  It would take real law enforcement/investigative authority to achieve that end.

So what are we left with?  What everybody knows....and no one is willing to "prove".  So the machine wins again, eh?

Not for much longer my friend.   Corrupt machine politics will die in New jersey.   It is not sustainable.  The state has been bled dry.

Corzine is better than Christie this cycle, but I assure you that this is the last gubernatorial election in NJ in which the machines will have any say.

It is my hope that Jon Corzine "gets on the bus" of real reform or he will be swept away along with the hacks that are behind Christie and Bush etc.

We are supposed to be the good guys, the progressives, the people's party.  If all we are is just a little less dirty than the Republicans then the Democratic party is good for shit.

I realize that your ambition is to make a good living in politics; but at what cost?  

I look forward to seeing Peter Cammarano work closely with the reformers on the council to advance a progressive agenda in Hoboken, and that means not selling the town out to developers who would continue to rape it for short term gain.

It all comes down to legalized bribery and pay to play and cronyism and sweetheart deals etc.   Each act taken as an isolated situation may be technically legal; but when/if it is all tied together a pattern can emerge and that is a criminal pattern of organized criminal activity that results in the taxpayers getting screwed.    That's what we have the RICO statutes for....and someday they will be used against the kind of political antics that some in NJ have come to accept as so routine that we see anyone who would dare object as a naive fool.

Remember, when I started saying these kinds of things here a couple of years ago, the BCDO and Ferriero seemed 100% invincible....now there are some cracks in that edifice.

Tom DeLay was invincible, and now he's totally discredited.

Fortunately, we still have the right to speak our minds and to have opinions...and guess what Matt, most of the people in New Jersey believe that corruption is rampant.....they may not be able to "prove" it in the legal sense but they know that their taxes keep going up and that the state keeps getting more broke and that the rich contractors, and real estate interests, and corporations, and law firms and engineering consultants etc etc etc that are well "connected"  keep on making out  like bandits.

You can laugh all you like and imply that the political establishment is all a bunch of honest upstanding citizens but the people know better....and things will change in NJ and in the USA a lot faster than you may think.

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by: Nick Lento @ Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 00:47:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]