CWA to challenge furloughs in court

rosenstein (0.00 / 0)

the nerve of this person...these union leaders say their middle class union members can't afford the pay cut....
who the hell does this person thinks pays for state workers??
the overtaxed private sector employee who, like me, is fed with union leaders saying they can't make any cut backs....
i'm fed up with higher taxes to pay for their pensions....let people like Rosenstein pay higher taxes for their pensions....
the private sector NJ middle class tax payer is fed up!!!!!!

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by: punk7676 @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 16:04:17 PM UTC

Spoken like a true Republican (0.00 / 0)

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 17:16:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

middle class workers... (0.00 / 0)

who put kids through school and food on the table.  An 8 percent pay cut is enormous for some people who already live paycheck to paycheck.  I don't know where you get off hitting Rosenstein like that but its low....yes cut backs can and should be made but trying to eliminate this furlough system is not ridiculous, we'd be better off cutting 5-7% of employees completely then use furloughs.  You would have to evaluate employees value to the state and make cuts accordingly.  Some state employees can't handle these furloughs though.

You also keep referring to yourself as an overtaxed private sector emloyee....well what exactly is it that you do?  All tax payer's pay state worker's salaries and that includes state workers.  Just because you aren't a state worker it doesn't mean you are getting taxed any less than a typical state worker...I wonder how you would feel if the shoe were on the other foot and you were getting docked 8% pay...

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by: Erik Preuss @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 16:25:46 PM UTC

I assume (0.00 / 0)

you have a job... and health benefits.

I commented before in another diary - laying people off in the worst recession since the 30's  is not a great idea.  The personal harm and collateral damage is catastrophic.

The Prez touted his stimulus package as a means to both save and create jobs.

Maybe there are too many state workers - I don't know.  But the time to ease them out is when they are more likely to find another job than to be on unemployment w/o health insurance and facing the the possibility of forclosure or eviction.

I agree with PB that both a wage freeze and furloughs are a bit much in a high cost state like NJ.

But I also agree with firsty that layoffs are not the answer.

Can't the Gov. find more creative ways to plug the budget gap?

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by: SmartyJones @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 17:14:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

ssume (0.00 / 0)

OK of the $50,000 per year, does that include the cost of health benefits and insurance, and oh yes what about the pension? Oh yes, how many paid vacation days?

there are many good folks working for the state government, but you see them on Friday afternoon in Trenton still in the office. I applaud them!!

However, I ask, " What % are not there?"

add up all the benefits and compare with those hard working folks  that may only have a handful of paid vacation days, have to pay for insurance, and have to show up for a full days work.

It's all relative and one can understand why the average NJ taxpayer is not happy with the union's behavior.

My accountant and I have both been calling a state department for 2 weeks now, getting mailbox is full. We call the general department number and the human reply is to go back and call that one number, no one else can help you!

Not a happy taxpayer!

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

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by: Babs NJSD @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 19:19:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The % of state workers not there (0.00 / 0)

I am constantly amazed at the urban myth that exists both here and among the general public that there is a sizable number of state workers not at their jobs on Fridays (or another days).  This is an urban legend.  If there was any truth to this, don't you think that some newspaper or media establishment (how about 101.5 for example) would have done a story on it.   Where I work, noone, repeat, noone does this.  

What I want to know is how we've gotten to the place that everyone believes the absolute worst about state workers.  For the most part, the people I work with have given up (yes given up) far more lucrative career possibilities in order to perform public service as a career.  We are dumbfounded at the anger we hear in the media.

Lastly, I am sorry that you haven't been able to get a reply from the state for your concern.   But it may be due to a severe shortage of workers.  This will only get worse with the furloughs.  In my area, it can take a long time to respond to a question from the general public (it isn't our main responsibility however) simply because we are way-behind in getting our actual job work done.

Best,
pb

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by: princetonblue @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 21:33:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

more than urban myth (0.00 / 0)

I will be the first to admit I make my statement from a very unscientific and small sample. There are many hard working and conscientious folks that I know that work for the state.

There are Departments and Divisions that appear to be well run and sometimes the problem may be an employee that might be considered "untouchable", I don't know.

That being said, I've gone to Trenton on personal business and found one person on a floor, who acted as receptionist telephone operator and gave apologies that noone was there that afternoon to help. that person did follow through and I received what I needed in a reasonable time.

In another Division, I've also been told that a 15 minute job would take 6-8 weeks and the n was told it was done and overtly lied to when I pressed to come down, they said it was mailed. Arrogance was the prevailing attitude. It was never mailed, never done!

I'm very sorry, I'm human, I remember the screw ups more that the things that are done as they should be. The screw ups are very costly to me. In business, one usually has a choice where we deal, in government there seems to be no choice.

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

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by: Babs NJSD @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 at 19:43:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

We agree in principle (0.00 / 0)

I've made many posts here about how I think state government could be better run.   The situations you describe should never happen and I wonder why the Governors of this state have not made sure that every part of government is an effective organization.   You should definitely complain to your assembly reps and senators.

As they say, all politics are local.  A few years ago, after the UMDNJ financial scandal, the state used it to do a really strict audit of my area.  They found not even a single violation, not even a small one.   Nevertheless, the Corzine administration cut our budget again that year while simultaneously increasing the aid to UMDNJ.  Go figure.

best,
pb

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by: princetonblue @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 at 20:05:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Again, Corzine is distorting the situation (0.00 / 0)

to make it seem that the only two alternatives are furloughs or layoffs.  They're not.

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by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 17:21:54 PM UTC

Blame CWA Leadership for Furloughs (0.00 / 0)

This did not have to be.

Rosenstein and the rest of that embarrassing crowd of CWA leaders had the chance to be part of the solution back in January. They could have agreed to the future wage freeze but they decided to play " chicken"  with the Governor.

They dared him to bring up the subject of layoffs. All he wanted was a wage freeze. But as things got worse, and CWA leadership was mouthing off more and more, the furlough idea was added.

Now CWA is going to go to court while at the same time they are telling their members to illegally picket and  shut down the State on Tuesday April 7th. Once again their actions are jeopardizing state workers their jobs.

Anyone who understands unions undersatnds that CWA is a joke. No real union would put 7,000 workers in jeopardy of losing their jobs WHEN THE EMPLOYER HIMSELF IS SAYING HE DOES NOT WANT TO LAY ANY ONE OFF !  

CWA leaders miscalculated every step ,but since they themselves are NOT state workers , they could care less.
   

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by: firstamend07 @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 21:39:15 PM UTC

CWA is the bogeyman (0.00 / 0)

yes, CWA is the cause of all the problems.  For a more realistic interpretation, go read some of the political commentary at politicsnj.com or at the various newspapers.   Several commentators have pointed out that Corzine seems to be targeting a group (state workers) in a way that will win him points among the general population.  More popular groups like NJEA, urban governments, have been spared (and funding has even been increased).  This is a cynical viewpoint but seems to describe the situation very well.   If it's correct, then regardless of what CWA would have done, we'd be in this situation.

-pb

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by: princetonblue @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 21:47:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wrong (0.00 / 0)

Sorry, but you are just wrong. Corzine tried to work with these people to no avail.

They are hard headed , short sighted union leaders who are not in touch with reality. They also forget that  their employer, the taxpayers, have had enough of their nonsense.  

The cause of state workers has been set back years.

Smart union leaders would have seen this " need for sacrafice" coming and made it work for , not against, their membership.

These are bad, bad, union leaders .  

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by: firstamend07 @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 23:29:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Are you the Governor? (0.00 / 0)

Unless you are the Governor, you have no idea what he really intended to do and have no basis for claiming what he would have done.   Corzine may have indicated that only a wage freeze was necessary at that time but the state budget has gotten much worse since.  The Governor never made an absolute promise for no furloughs.  If he had (and I wish he would have), CWA would have agreed to the wage freeze.  They said as much at the time.

I think you've read way, way too much into what the Governor has said and you have let your contempt for the CWA (expressed before this crisis ever happened) cloud your analysis of this situation.  

-pb

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by: princetonblue @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 23:49:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wrong again PB (0.00 / 0)

I do know , for a fact, that Corzine would have agreed to an even swap, wage freeze for layoffs , as early as January 6th.

It would never have been a public announcement ( common sense can tell you why) but Corzine would have never gone back on the agreement.

Why do you think I am so upset at those CWA grandstanders?

Now the whole situation , because of people like Rosenstein and her big mouth, has spun out of control and people are in jeopardy of losing their jobs.

Tell me, please. In the history of labor relations  when have you ever seen the employer ( Corzine) fight to keep people working while the Union ( I hate to even use that word with it attached to CWA ) dared him to lay people off?  

There was a deal .  

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by: firstamend07 @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 at 02:28:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

And how do you know this? (0.00 / 0)

"I do know , for a fact, that Corzine would have agreed to an even swap, wage freeze for layoffs , as early as January 6th."

Forgive me, but I don't believe you are in a position to "know" this.  You are making a conjecture, one that you believe strongly in. You also "knew" last year that Andrews was going to win the primary.  

You paint a picture that has the Governor going after the union because they wouldn't agree with him in January.  At best, that makes him vindictive.  I believe a more reasonable explanation is that the Dec/Jan. budget figures were far worse than anyone thought they would be and Gov. Corzine had to rethink his plans.  Even if there had been an agreement, the Governor would have had to break it.  

-pb

 

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by: princetonblue @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 at 03:09:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

January Meetings with Corzine (0.00 / 0)

CWA was called into a meeting atthe Governors Office during the first week in January. Corzine gave them an option and asked for their help.

They through it in his face and embarrassed him by going on NJN and " acting tough" .

The furlough idea did not even come up until late January. Despite bad economic numbers Corzine would not have gone back on his word had CWA agreed to the wage freeze.

CWA leadership played chicken , and now  7,000 members jobs might lose their jobs or 66,000 will endure a furlough.

THAT IS YOUR LEADERSHIP TEAM  !!

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by: firstamend07 @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 at 10:34:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]