Corzine gets green light on furloughs

Corzine Too Nice To CWA Leadership (0.00 / 0)

On Thursday January 4 and Friday January 5 there were a series of meetings between the Governor and Legislative leaders and the leadership of interest groups.

The CWA leadership had their own meeting with Corzine. At that meeting he told them that he believed that if a wage freeze was imposed for the upcoming contract year then he could avoid any layoffs of state workers.  He told them that he could not publicly guarantee this but that if they agreed to the wage freeze his word would be good.

Both CWA and Corzine were well aware of Article 41 of the state worker contract. The Article is the Legislative Clause that clearly states that no part of the contract can be enacted unless the Legislature approves the allocation of money. CWA had nothing to bargain with, they knew that and Corzine knew that. Being a friend he still wanted to give them the opportunity to have it look like they were going to be part of the process.

That was the deal. CWA would come out and agree to the wage freeze( which was going to be imposed anyway)  and tell the public that they were going to be part of the solution and partake in the sacrifices that were being asked of everyone. In return, Corzines private word of no layoffs.

CWA leadership instead told Corzine " no way" . They told him that he could not afford to lay state workers off because he could not run the state without them! Unbelievable arrogance! Corzine was actually shocked at their response. They then left and told the Press that Corzine was reopening the contract illegally. They publicly embarrassed him.

They  went on for weeks attacking him and telling their membership that Corzine was against the sanctity of a contract.

The economy got worse in the coming weeks and that is when Corzine decided to utilize the furlough idea. He had no intentions of using furloughs in early January and he would have kept his word.

There is little doubt that had the CWA leadership agreed to the wage freeze Corzine would never had brought up the furlough.

Now today you saw the " big show" that CWA put on at a merit system board meeting. Notice , they have completely stopped talking about fighting the wage freeze because they , Corzine , and many of the Legislators ( Sweeney especially) know that Article 41 makes them powerless.

It is unfortunate that the average state worker does not know this story. They will hear that " Corzine screwed them" when in reality it was their own leadership that is now going to have them lose 5% of their gross pay next year because of the furlough.

If you watched NJN tonight you would have heard Corzine comment about " notifying" CWA about issues " in January". Even today Corzine looked like he was kicked in the stomach by these ungrateful CWA leaders.

If the membership knew the true story...........................      

---

by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 00:58:49 AM UTC

Notification (0.00 / 0)

They were talking about notification for this particular meeting.

And there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that had the union agreed to the wage freeze, Corzine would not have gone the furlough route.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 12:56:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What " proof" do you need? (0.00 / 0)

The deal was made . Wage freeze for no layoffs. If the CWA leaders would have stood side by side with Corzine then that would have been it. He was ready to say that he wanted to thank the state workers for helping at this time of need.  

When Corzine asked them to agree at the meeting he held with them the first week in January they decided to play " tough guy" and told him no. The CWA leaders then left the meeting and mouthed off to NJN and the reporters about how Corzine did not respect contracts.

Six weeks later Corzine put up the idea of furloughs.

He would have never done so if the CWA leadership did not get all mouthy.

CWA blew an opportunity to save their members 5% of their pay.

Then yesterday they stage this big phony protest.

How can you keep defending these idiots?

 

---

by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 23:07:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Emergency Crisis? (4.00 / 1)

Before we declare a budgetary emergency and break signed contracts, shouldn't NJ

1.  not be raising K-12 school aid in the current budget?

2.  be reducing or eliminating non-required property tax rebates?

3.  Eliminating all other non-required spending?

We do have a dire fiscal problem in NJ, but let's be honest:  the Governor and legislator are choosing to break contracts because they want to save on labor costs.  It's a choice, not a necessity.  If NJ wants to start breaking contracts, it should first be required to do everything in its power to eliminate non-required spending.  It's not a choice, just like it can't be my choice to stop paying my mortgage.

-pb

---

by: princetonblue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 02:33:54 AM UTC

Choices (0.00 / 0)

Clearly the union made a bad choice and gets no sympathy and loses political capital.

This is an emergency! Have some folks not noticed?  

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

---

by: Babs NJSD @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 04:57:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

AMEN! (0.00 / 0)

Totally agree. Unfortunately the average state worker is being made to look like a greedy , self centered ingrate.

CWA leadership is trying to coverup their screwup.

---

by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 12:07:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Baloney (0.00 / 0)

This is just an excuse for screwing the state worker unions.  

In terms of losing political capital, according to the recent polls it's Corzine who should be worried about losing.  He needs all the friends he can get.  He's not going to have many among state workers.  That doesn't mean they will necessarily vote Republican.  They might just decide to sit on their hands.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 12:59:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

if they sit on their hands (0.00 / 0)

that will be another screw-up!

Are they going to be better off with Chrisitie?  Can they cut off their nose to spite their face?

Time for a wake up call!

"Discrimination caused by ignorance and fear is a tax on human progress" - Barbra Casbar Siperstein

---

by: Babs NJSD @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 19:23:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Article 41 in Contract (0.00 / 0)

You know about that article. How can you honestly say a contract is being broken? The reality is that the contract is being enforced ! Contracts go both ways ! Article 41 clearly gives the appropriations power to the Legislature and the Governor.

Your people, the CWA leadership signed that contract. Unfortunately both you and your people only want to read the good parts!

Yesterday was a staged event. " P" days were given to get people off of work to show up. The average taxpayer was disgusted and that only hurts those of us who go to work each day for the taxpayers.  

Those people who got arrested are not even state workers . They work for the CWA organization.

The membership is being deceived again!  

---

by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 12:05:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

aka "Make everyone else pay for ME!" (0.00 / 0)

So, we should

increase EVERYONE's property taxes for education, AND

eliminate property tax relief (notice you're NOT saying that it should be redirected to direct aid to municipalities or school districts, but completely ELIMINATED)

"Eliminating all other non-required spending" is an interesting concept.  After all, if we eliminated all the "non-essential" employees and even took a harder look at the so-called "essential" ones, we could eliminate a lot of non-required spending!

There are no good answers here.  But, insisting on keeping your big slice of the pie while everyone else is going hungry is not just wrong but politically stupid.

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 12:32:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh yeah, we're really getting fat over here (0.00 / 0)

State workers, in general are willing to suspend the pay raise.  They're willing to "sacrifice."  It's the furlough days that really piss people off.  You're talking about losing more than one paycheck when a lot of employees live from paycheck to paycheck.  Is this what a Democratic Governor does?  If it is, then we might as well have a Republican.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 13:03:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Gutless (0.00 / 0)

Did you tell your CWA union leaders that YOU were ready to accept a wage freeze? I remember when you fought that idea also.

I hope you will be happy when Christie is Governor and YOU get privatized.

YOUR CWA union leaders brought on this furlough.  

---

by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 23:11:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"when Christie is Governor" (0.00 / 0)

I'm sure you'd be quite happy.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 12:57:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not me. (0.00 / 0)

I have been supportive of Corzine and his efforts to balance the budget. You and CWA leadership have been stabbing him in the back.

---

by: firstamend07 @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 16:33:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Do you not respect contracts then? (0.00 / 0)

It's not a question of what one would like to do.  It's what it is ethical to do.   NJ signed contracts.  It can't break contracts just because it wants to.  

None of the other issues are signed contracts, like it or not.

-pb

---

by: princetonblue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 14:11:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Article 41 (0.00 / 0)

Read it and learn what YOUR CWA union leadership agreed to .

No contract has been broken, as a matter of fact the contract is being enforced .  

Please do not talk about the contract unless YOU have read the complete contract.

---

by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 23:13:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Do you ever argue facts? (0.00 / 0)

Creed,

You seem to just like personal attacks.  I pity you.  To you, it's all about everyone keeping their part of the pie and you don't want to give up any of yours.  I've suggested substantive shared sacrifice in previous posts.  As far as I can tell, you only want others to sacrifice.  Now, who is the selfish one here?

Do you even care about principles like fairness and justice?

-pb

---

by: princetonblue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 14:18:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

what sacrifice were YOU willing to make? (0.00 / 0)

Talk about projection!  You are the one (along with 12mile) who wants everyone else to pay up to keep you in the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed.  What exactly were you willing to give up???

YOU said that education aid should be reduced along with rebates.  I didn't force you to say it.  I just try to force you to look at the consequences which you don't like.

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 15:01:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I said I was willing to give up the pay raise (0.00 / 0)

As long as there were no furloughs.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 15:05:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're bigger than PB then. n/t (0.00 / 0)

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 15:42:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh that hurts (4.00 / 1)

Hey Creed, if you would use that little thing called a brain that I'm guessing you have, you might want to use it.  I've made lots of recommended sacrifices on this list.  I can't help it if you can't remember them.

-pb

---

by: princetonblue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 17:40:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"sacrifices" for EVERYONE ELSE (0.00 / 0)

not for you.  Instead of saying that you had "made lots of recommended sacrifices" you could have listed at least one that would affect you as opposed to everyone else paying to keep you in your accustomed lifestyle.

No one likes pay freezes or furloughs, but haven't you noticed that things are a bit of a mess right now???

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 19:37:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You gotta be kidding! (0.00 / 0)

Creed is right. You wanted it all until it was pointed out to you that YOUR CWA leadership signed the contract and it contained Article 41 which allowed your pay raise to be taken from you.

Your people blew this ! CWA played chicken with state worker jobs and lost.

Please don't rewrite history.  

---

by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 23:17:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Let's stick to the facts. (0.00 / 0)

Again,

You don't seem to making any sacrifices.   You don't even want the schools to show restraint by not getting increased state aid.  The schools haven't even begun to cut back significantly.  

There is no contract saying that the schools are guaranteed increased state aid.

Which part of this can't you understand?

-pb

 

---

by: princetonblue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 17:38:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

a lot of schools, including Abbotts, (0.00 / 0)

are laying off teachers and staff.  Notice I didn't say "freezing their pay" but they are being FIRED.  Additionally, our state Constitution includes "thurough and efficient education" as an obligation of the State.  THAT is a contract as well.

Which part of THIS don't you understand????

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 19:40:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What about... (0.00 / 0)

Restricting overtime, hiring freeze, cracking down on state cars/drivers/cellphones.

I haven't heard much on those fronts.

"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzai

---

by: William Weber (WjcW) @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 13:01:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

And (0.00 / 0)

How about rescinding the $250 million annual tax giveaway to corporations Corzine signed last December?

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 13:10:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Governor Union Buster (0.00 / 0)

The choice is not between losing two and-a-half weeks of pay and a pay raise and layoffs.  That's what people like Corzine, Sweeney and some on here would like you to believe.  There is not a direct correlation.  State workers are willing to sacrifice one or the other, but not both.  Meanwhile, a contract negotiated by Corzine is apparently not worth the paper its written on.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 12:54:12 PM UTC

Corzine's anti-stimulus plan (0.00 / 0)

Cut people's wages to improve the economy.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 13:05:30 PM UTC

Shared Sacrifice? Just for State Workers not for Business (4.00 / 2)

Unfortunately, Blue Jersey with its uncritical approach to the Corzine administration simply doesn't get the reality of the budget.

The administration has been clear on several occasions; they want the state worker wage freeze and furloughs  SO THEY CAN TRANSFERS GENERAL FUND REVENUES TO THE UNEMPLOYMENT FUND SO BUSINESS WON'T HAVE TAX INCREASE!  (New flash - UI tax increases happen in a recession.)

It should be remembered that the Corzine administration's first response to the recession/depression was to call for further cuts in the corporate income tax.  They called this a "stimulus" program but then argued that it would not have an impact for several years (?)

These policies of the Corzine administration are sharply at odds with the Obama adminstration.

Obama has proposed fair corporate taxes.  In NJ we cut the corporate tax, call it stimulus, and create even greater future budget problems.

The Obama stimulus puts money in the pockets of middle class families  -- Corzines cuts take that money away.  The Corzine cuts that are aimed at workers are an ANTI-STIMULUS program.

The level of the budget attack on state employees is breathtaking.  Every major cut in the budget impacts on state employees.

First and by far the largest cut was the $1 billion cut in pension funding for state workers and teachers.   This cut dwarfs every other cut.

Then there is the $517 million cut in property tax rebates for those making over $50,000.  This impacts most state worker families and all middle income New Jerseyeans sharply.

Then there is the $420 million from the wage freeze and furloughs for only state workers.

All this is on top of a rough situation in the workplace for state workers with many people performing the work of two or three workers who have retired or left.   Further,  huge numbers of  state employees every day perform much higher level work than their pay reflects.

This budget reflects the reality that NJ politicians see state workers as an easy target.

Blue Jersey needs to begin talking about the class nature of this budget.  While it hits middle income workers and especially state workers hard, it largely protects businesses and corporations.

CWADudley  -- Dudley Burdge

---

by: cwadudley @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 14:10:34 PM UTC

Great post (0.00 / 0)

Thank you.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 14:31:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

you'll never get a more pro-state worker Governor (0.00 / 0)

yet, you are complaining because you are being asked to share in the sacrifices that everyone else is making!

You have a pension system that is UNSUSTAINABLE.  N/55 should be rescinded.  That unearned 9% increase being eliminated would take a big step toward making a sustainable system.

So, you admit that most state workers make over $50,000 even though most of the private sector workers who pay the taxes that pay your salaries don't.

I have mentioned before that New Jersey has a higher ratio of state employees than most other states.  That is an uncomfortable FACT for some, but it is still a fact.

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 15:07:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ha! ha! Ha! (0.00 / 0)

you'll never get a more pro-state worker Governor

ROTFL

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 15:13:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

name one. n/t (0.00 / 0)

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 15:43:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh let's see (0.00 / 0)

Dick Hughes, Tom Kean, Dick Cody, Jim McGreevey.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 15:45:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

yes, let us see! (0.00 / 0)

How many state employees were there under Hughes???  A third of today's number (or less?)

I notice both Tom Kean and Junior manning the barricades against this outrage of pay cuts instead of layoffs.  NOT!

Dick Codey is saying that the budget will be put on hold until this is "fixed."  NOT!

And you must really be joking about McGreevey.

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 19:53:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Nothing like moving the goal posts (0.00 / 0)

You asked which governors were better for state workers.  I responded, and you replied not by saying they weren't good for state workers, but that "no one remembers Hughes," the Keans aren't "manning the barricades," Codey's position now, and no response about McGreevey.  Very responsive indeed.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 12:59:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

your "examples" are weak (0.00 / 0)

for the reasons I outlined.  Additionally, Codey was Governor for just over a year.

Other than hiring more people for DYFS (good) and not paying on the pensions (bad), what exactly are McGreevey's "accomplishments?"

What did you like about Kean?  That he governed in good times and gave out raises and didn't have to cut anything???

Dick Hughes' time as Governor ended FOUR DECADES ago, so it is rather hard to compare his situation with today.

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 14:37:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You asked for examples (0.00 / 0)

And then you complain because I gave examples you don't like for one reason or another, but not because they're not proof that state workers have not had a "better friend" than Corzine.  With friends like him, who needs enemies.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 14:50:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

so any four names would do??? (0.00 / 0)

Out of the governors elected since the 1947 constitution, you named three:  Hughes, Kean and McGreevey.  I asked about McGreevey since he didn't do anything with the pensions and what exactly did Kean do.  Kean may not have done anything "anti-" but he wasn't dealing with bad budgets either and certainly left a bad budget for Florio to clean up.

I realize that facts are difficult things, but let's try to move beyond polemic and use facts.

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 16:57:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Polemic (0.00 / 0)

You claimed that state workers never had a "better friend" than Jon Corzine.  The fact is that no Governor, even Christie Whitman, has tried to screw state workers more than Corzine.

And don't give me the budget excuse.  There were bad budgets during recessions in mid-70s, early 80s and early 90s, and none of the governors put the screws to state workers the way that Corzine is doing.

The claim that state workers have never had a better friend than Corzine is absurd on its face.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 17:40:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Then Vote for Christie (0.00 / 0)

Your Corzine bashing is getting old. Just come out and say that you are supporting Chris Christie and his policies. I am sure Christie will be a much better friend to state workers.

You seem to represent the very vocal minority of state workers ( CWA leadership leads theway!) who judge someone by how much that person gives YOU.

It is my hope that the majorityf of state workers, who are hard working and not self centered will begin to voice their opinions against the CWA selfish leadership and also agaisnt those state workers who give the restof us a bad name.      

---

by: firstamend07 @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 18:33:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

so, it's really just Corzine makes cuts (0.00 / 0)

so he is a BAD, BAD guy.  There have been some layoffs before, but don't ask all of us for shared sacrifice to prevent layoffs because now you touch ME!  What a way to be.

All the other stuff he has done to cater to state workers goes by the wayside!  After all, the only thing in the last contract that would have impacted current workers was the co-pay for health coverage which Corzine took out unilaterally.

This just goes to show that there is no making the extreme people happy.

We should just fire half of you and let you see how bad it really is in the private sector!  Then, at least, you'd really have something to complain about!!  :-D

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 19:24:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Go Back to School (4.00 / 1)

Creed,

It's been explained to you several times why your claims about the average state worker wage do not mean what you think they mean.  If you keep putting out nonsense, after having it explained why it's nonsense, you're no better than Bush and his WMD.  

-pb

---

by: princetonblue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 17:44:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Your Chances Of Convicing.... (0.00 / 0)

.....our mutual friend that he's even slightly mistaken are nil......and no matter what you say; he'll "come back" with an annoying rejoinder that will have ignored anything of value you may have said.   Oh, and you'll virtually never have "the last word".  

On the surface, if one isn't paying close attention his rationales might seem plausible.....but at the core there's usually (there have been some rare exceptions) some element of petty mean spiritedness.

So long as the management here tolerates it....we'll just have to live with the curmudgeons amongst us.  (No doubt some here would apply that term to me too.  ;-)

*******

Corzine is doing what he believes it will take to get re-elected....and it will likely work given who he's running against.

Having said that, I do believe that NJ and the counties and localities could probably do quite well if 10% of the least productive members of the workforce were cut.

The problem with that formulation is that there's no way that the 10% who were the least productive/competent would get the ax......it would be the ones who had the least skills (and connections)  in playing the internal politics game.....which I dare say would likely be some of the most dedicated and hardest working people there.  

Hell, there's probably at least 10% of most private enterprise workers and management that are dead wood/leeches etc.  

We really are in a pickle.   NJ government is riddled with fat and there is little or no chance that any of the contemplated cuts/reductions will do other than cut out lean healthy muscle.

Further, we need tax increases on wealthy people and profitable businesses,  they can afford to pay....and they should.   We also need to get away from the regressive sales tax....and reform the property tax system in ways that would make it more fair/progressive.

Discussing the state's financial problem from just one perspective is bound to cause more heat than light.....it really is all connected folks.
 

---

by: Nick Lento @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 19:00:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

more projection from Nick. n/t (0.00 / 0)

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 19:41:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

FACTS can be annoying things, I know. n/t (0.00 / 0)

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 19:45:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

actually (0.00 / 0)

the only thing you said in response is that the "average state employee" SHOULD be paid more than the "average private sector worker" because the public jobs are more difficult and demand higher skills.  When I pointed out that is rather loony (after all offices are offices whether in Trenton or somewhere else), you claimed that isn't what you said but didn't want to say what else you "actually" meant.

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 19:44:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are a Paid CWA spokesperson (0.00 / 0)

I must ask, where you part of the meeting in early January where the CWA basically told Corzine to " pound sand" when he asked them to agree to the wage freeze?

Where you or any of the other CWA leadership group aware of Artilce 41 which you and your boss signed?

Are you even remotely aware, as you sit in your CWA office of how greedy and self centered state workers are looking to the taxpayers?

You are paid by CWA. You are not a state worker, but you are jeopardizing state worker jobs.

Can you please tell me what CWA is fighting FOR? What is their plan? Tax the Rich again?

Please pass along this message.  CWA leadership has been exposed ! You and your group caused this furlough and if you keep mothing off you will cause many of us, who actually work for the sstate to be laid off.      

---

by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 23:27:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Interesting (0.00 / 0)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03...

---

by: SmartyJones @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 18:47:45 PM UTC

you mean there IS an economic crisis out there (0.00 / 0)

NO way!

It amazes me when there are layoffs and business closings all over the place that some state workers feel that a pay freeze and a 5% pay cut is just the worst thing that could happen to anybody.  It isn't pleasant, but it is a lot better than losing 100% of your income.

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 19:49:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

unions (0.00 / 0)

these union leaders who don't want to deal with the recession  very simply disgust me...and you wonder why more and more people are fed up with the unions....people in the private sector, like me, who are being taxed to death are just fed up with union people who don't want to help out the over taxed taxpayer....
to me, lay them off!!! the hell with them is my feeling....
private sector employees are not getting pay raises, some of their pay is being cut and their benefits cut...and you know what...we are ok with that because we need to help out our companies..better to still be working than not have a job....these union people better wake up and smell the coffee!!!!

---

by: punk7676 @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 19:57:21 PM UTC

Spoken Like A True "Blue"Dog.... (3.00 / 1)

.....the answer is for all American workers to have the level of security, rights and benefits that government/union workers have.

This ecomomic crisis wasn't caused by the workers.   And simply cutting wages and reducing our standard of living won't solve it.

If you want us to become a third world nation to pay off the debts incurred by Bernie Madoff and AIG et all...then you are no Democrat of any kind.

I understand that we're all pissed off about this situation; but let's keep that heat and light directed at the greedy scumbags at the top who engineered this heist instead of asking poor working schlubs to eat the leftover losses.

Should state/gov workers take a hit.....hell, I just suggested that we could do well enough if 10% took a hike......but which 10%.....now that's another can of worms.

Cheers!

---

by: Nick Lento @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 20:40:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

take all who don't deal with the public (0.00 / 0)

and do work in Trenton offices and you have a rather large pool to start thinning out.

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 21:57:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're an ignoramous (0.00 / 0)

Just because someone deals with the public doesn't mean they're more valuable than someone who doesn't.  And vice versa.  Maybe if you knew a little more about the variety of work state workers "in Trenton" do, you could offer an intelligent suggestion.

---

by: 12mileseastofTrenton @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 12:55:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I guess I hit a nerve. :-) (0.00 / 0)

Even when your new buddy, Nick, was attacking me, he was also saying that 10% of state workers should be eliminated but bemoaned the "difficulty" in figuring out where to start.  So, I suggested a place to start looking.  I actually don't agree with him about the ten percent (but that says a lot about your "allies" in this) and I would think that 5% would be better and more achievable.

---

by: Creed Pogue @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 at 14:41:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Unions are good? CWA is embarrassing (0.00 / 0)

Good unions are needed. Socially responsible unions who work for their members and at the same time understand that they are part of the community are beneficial.

CWA is not one of those unions. Their leadership is self centered and have grown fat because they are protected by state law.

Thye make all good unions look bad.

Why do you think that not one other union has come to their aid?  

---

by: firstamend07 @ Thu Mar 26, 2009 at 23:32:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]