To Be or Not To Be A Sand Hill!!

I’ve never laughed as hard as I did when reading the diary “The Truth about Holloway’s Sand Hill Motives”.  Of all the diaries/comments ever written regarding the Sand Hill Lawsuit, this one’s the most humorous.  Whenever I tried to type a response I couldn’t, because I’d begin laughing hysterically.

What makes someone a member of a tribe when not raised with the tribe- I don’t know of one North American tribe where they don’t have tribal members scattered throughout the continent.  Some Native American children are raised in non-indian homes by their non-indian parent and are exposed to their Native American heritage when visiting with their Native Parent and tribal family members.  If Ron Holloway is not a Sand Hill because his mother was a Jewish (religion)  woman, and even though he was taught the ancestral traditions, culture and history of the Sand Hill by his kitchuwah father (who was raised by a very traditional Sand Hill mother) and other family members, then Pontiton has a problem.

The Ramapoughs are 99% Christian and very, very inter-racial.  They don’t know how to speak Lenape; don’t know their ancestral religion, traditions.  Therefore based upon Pontiton’s thinking- they can’t possibly be Ramapough, because 99% are Christian, raised with no traditions, language, or native religion, most of the organizations’ members are raised away from Stag Hill-so therefore they can’t be members of the 5013c organization because most of them don’t live on the mountain-  OMG they even have people claiming to be Ramapough living in Texas (& other states) away from the tribe.    Then, according to Pontiton’s thinking, one must conclude that there are no Ramapough and therefore who is this person claiming to be Ramapough and what planet has Pontiton come from?  Oh, Pontiton, I guess that makes you Irish!

Regarding the comment about Federal recognition; supervised vs. unsupervised; and whether that means the Federal Government recognizes the tribe as a sovereign Nation or not.  Being unsupervised means that the tribe does not receive Federal benefits and DOES NOT appear on the BIA list of recognized Tribes receiving benefits- because that’s what that list really means.  It doesn’t mean that those tribes who aren’t on the list are not recognized by the U.S. Government as sovereign- but rather they are not on the list because they are not receiving funds. Recognition is established by a working relationship with the Federal Government and because the Sand Hill Tribe that Hollway belongs to works with the Federal Government on numerous task forces (Dept. of Interior, Home Land security, Dept. of Energy, Veterans Administration) on an ongoing, continuous basis and that the NJ Sand Hill Band of Lenape and Cherokee Indians are consulted and worked with– Therefore they are a recognized Tribe by the Federal government because they work Government to Government.  If Pontiton is saying that the Federal Government has no idea who they are dealing with, that all these departments never looked into the Tribe’s background, and that these Sand Hills are Frauds- then again-I must ask- what planet does he/she come from?

Therefore if Pontiton really understood the subtleties of Tribal recognition with the Federal Government  he/she would realize how ludicrous his/her comments were.

Regarding Medicine Crow.  In all the time that I have known Medicine Crow he has never stated and/or represented himself as a Shaman – He has represented himself as a Raiki Master-  Raiki Master is not a Shaman.  It has nothing to do with Shamanism. Obviously Pontiton doesn’t understand the difference.  

However, talking about Shaman’s – Heard a rumor that the Chief of the Ramapoughs considers himself a Shaman- knowing the Ramapoughs – who taught him?  

Addressing Sam Beeler and the web sites that were mentioned- one is a blog and subject to anyone’s input; the other is “www. Cherokee Nation.com” which is a news/blog site and immediately lists the following disclaimer (second thru fourth sentences are very interesting, as well as the last two sentences)-

“The Cherokee Nation maintains this server to enhance public access to Cherokee Nation information. Cherokee Nation provides no warranty, expressed or implied, as to the accuracy, reliability or completeness of furnished data.

Only public information will be maintained on the Cherokee Nation home page or made accessible through links to other web pages. We strongly recommend that Cherokee Nation data be acquired directly from a Cherokee Nation server and not through other sources that may change the data in some way. Use external links only when there is a direct relationship between the program coverage of the Cherokee Nation home page and the material to which it links.

This site contains live references (or pointers) to information created and maintained by other organizations including plug-in downloads used to view various content on the Cherokee Nation web site. Please note that Cherokee Nation does not control, endorse, and cannot guarantee the relevance, timeliness, or accuracy of these outside materials or plug-in downloads. We cannot guarantee the safety of your personal computer from visiting or Downloading from sites outside of cherokee.org…. “

Reminds me of Wikipedia- anyone can input information at any time and the information on Wikipedia is questionable as to the accuracy because people are constantly rewriting information. Wikipedia can actually state that the holocaust never happened- it’s just a matter of rewriting history and anyone can do it.  It has been done so many times regarding the Native American History in New Jersey that only the Federal Government and a few others know who is who because some knuckleheads are trying to rewrite the State’s history.

Reality check- If anyone calls/writes the Federally recognized Cherokee tribes and asks if they know so and so- the response will be “no, we are not familiar with that name, etc.”.  Unless a person speaks with a member of the Tribal Council and/or Council of Elders, (you must actually know a member of the either council to be able to do so), no one will be given any information as to whether or not the Cherokee Federal Tribes know of another person or tribe.  The answer will always be” no” because the Cherokee at the other end has no idea who the hell the person is that they are talking/writing to and will not get involved in something that could lead them into a lawsuit.  

Obviously Pontiton doesn’t understand how the Federal tribes react and/or work when dealing with people inquiring over the phone/letter about people and/or tribes.  Also, the answers that Pontiton is referring to that are all over the internet allegedly appear to be written by members of the Ramapough & Nanticoke organizations and/or people affiliated with them.

However, what Pontiton fails to mention is the fact that Ronald Holloway and Chief Beeler’s genealogy has already been posted and is beyond reproach.  More than 50% of Sand Hill tribal members are Reevey, Richardson, and their Chief Justice/lead Council, Arleen Richards, is Chief Crummel’s great grand-daughter and her mother is his grand-daughter. Not to mention all the other cousins, sister and family members- surely the entire tribe can’t be wrong as to who they are?  Also DNA tied to the oldest skeletal remains ever found in NJ also carries considerable weight in a court of law.  Pontiton forgets to mention for the reader’s benefit that Holloway and Beeler’s DNA match the DNA of the skeleton- making them the descendants of the original indigenous people living in NJ more than 1500-1800 years ago.  Also Pontiton (or advisors) failed to inform readers that the Reevys, Richards, Holloways and Crummels are all inter-related.

Oh my goodness- for shame Pontiton- that he/she forgot that piece of information. Or, obviously he/she doesn’t know Sand Hill genealogy or their history.

Which brings us to the illustrious Indian Commission.  That was where Claire Garland stated that she never knew Sam Beeler (along with a whole host of other Ramapough/Nanticoke) and said that it wasn’t she who was standing next to Sam Beeler in a well published picture.  So who was she standing next to- Michael Jackson? (http://flic.kr/p/5nALrq)

That was also where those who Beeler had helped to obtain their 5013c status said they didn’t know him and that he was never a Chief.

Chief Sam Beeler was hired by the UN to be an “ambassador” to identify all the indigenous peoples by traveling world wide- And to think- If one were to believe what Pontiton wrote-all Chief Beeler had to do was just say that he was Chief of the Sand Hills and ‘lo and behold’ he was hired by the UN!  That Beeler didn’t have to present any documentation or anything to prove who he was.  Nope- the UN just took him at his word- If Pontiton really thinks people will buy the above explanation and that Beeler is a fraud- I ask again- what planet is this person from?

So it appears that Pontiton (or whatever his/her real name is) never answered his/her own statement “The truth about Holloway’s Sand Hill Motives” and I now have a question to ask- Who do you think is going to get the blame for all the problems that caused the lawsuit and the subsequent bill that the taxpayers are going to have to pay?  It isn’t going to be the NJ Sand Hill Band of Lenape & Cherokee Indians, nor former Gov. Corzine, Wells, Milgram, or Gov. Christie?  Who do you think will be thrown under the bus?  

Pontiton please keep writing- Everyone loves the “foot in mouth” disease. I need a good laugh and so do others.

Oh – you would think with all the writers helping Pontiton, they’d get something correct- However they didn’t – so once again for clarification– I am not the Sand Hills lawyer, Chief Crummel’s great granddaughter is- please get your facts straight!!!  

Comments (51)

  1. carolh

    http://www.bluejersey.com/show

    This includes the infamous photo presented to the NJ Indian Commission clearly showing Claire Garland and Sam Beeler together.

    Reply
  2. Nick Lento

    ……is loud and clear in what you’ve so eloquently said liz!

    Thanks for blowing “Pontiton’s” assertions out of the shallow and muddy ditch in which they were already sinking.

    Your diary was/is chock full of facts and rationality.   Thank you!

    As I said in my note to Mr or Ms “Pontiton” it is my fervent wish to see all of these matters come to a head in an open and public trial where all of the relevant parties can be compelled to testify under oath and under the criminal penalty of perjury should they intentionally be lying.

    I repeat my challenge to Pontition and to all of the various parties to this suite.  Please do all in your power to let this matter go to trial.  

    Continuing to WASTE what may be MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to stall and to suppress is either totally unnecessary and stupid if you have a surefire win/slam dunk at trial………..or it is an indication that you are seriously afraid of losing at trial…..in which case you should be trying to work out a settlement.

    Again:  If the case of the Sand Hills is so utterly merit-less as Pontiton and the State claim, then they should have nothing at all to be afraid of by letting it go public before a federal judge……a judge who if he/she has any predisposition it would likely be FOR the state….eh?

    May the new year bring truth to light and justice for all!!!

     

    Reply
  3. pontiton

    more talking from both sides of your mouth.. Once again.. you lokk to drag the Ramapough into your comments but this is not about the Ramapough. This is about Stacy and Holloway with fake claims to be Sand Hill.

    And if you want to be factual, let’s not lie. In 2008 you were at the commission meeting representing the Sand Hill. I was there.

     

    Reply
  4. pontiton

    “Also DNA tied to the oldest skeletal remains ever found in NJ also carries considerable weight in a court of law.  Pontiton forgets to mention for the reader’s benefit that Holloway and Beeler’s DNA match the DNA of the skeleton- making them the descendants of the original indigenous people living in NJ more than 1500-1800 years ago.”

    Really? I’m sure the government would love to hear all about this..

    The Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA) of 1990 established the process whereby federally-recognized American Indian tribes can request that museums and institutions receiving federal funds return culturally affiliated human remains. The NAGPRA also sets forth provisions that allow for the return of American Indian human remains found on federal lands.

    The Sand Hill are neither Federal or State recognized and this would have been against the law. Wanna try again with that lie?

    Reply
  5. pontiton

    Regarding the comment about Federal recognition; supervised vs. unsupervised; and whether that means the Federal Government recognizes the tribe as a sovereign Nation or not.  Being unsupervised means that the tribe does not receive Federal benefits and DOES NOT appear on the BIA list of recognized Tribes receiving benefits- because that’s what that list really means.  It doesn’t mean that those tribes who aren’t on the list are not recognized by the U.S. Government as sovereign- but rather they are not on the list because they are not receiving funds. Recognition is established by a working relationship with the Federal Government and because the Sand Hill Tribe that Hollway belongs to works with the Federal Government on numerous task forces (Dept. of Interior, Home Land security, Dept. of Energy, Veterans Administration) on an ongoing, continuous basis and that the NJ Sand Hill Band of Lenape and Cherokee Indians are consulted and worked with– Therefore they are a recognized Tribe by the Federal government because they work Government to Government. ”

    Interesting enough, you chose the H.S. My brother is a director,  worked for Homeland Security,. and works out of Va., Does this mean the Ramapough are Federally Recognized as unsupervised? NO! But i will do you a favor.. I will call my brother and ask him to investigate r/their claim as to them working with the Homeland Security. As a federal agent, i’m sure he’ll find out for me..  

    Reply
  6. pontiton

    “Addressing Sam Beeler and the web sites that were mentioned- one is a blog and subject to anyone’s input; the other is “www. Cherokee Nation.com” which is a news/blog site and immediately lists the following disclaimer (second thru fourth sentences are very interesting, as well as the last two sentences)- ”

    Want to call the Federally Recognized Cherokee Nation like i did to verify the fraud list is accurate and you are fake?  (918) 453-5000 x5676 ask for Tamera Brickley.. what else ya got?

    Reply
  7. pontiton

    “If Ron Holloway is not a Sand Hill because his mother was a Jewish (religion)  woman, and even though he was taught the ancestral traditions, culture and history of the Sand Hill by his kitchuwah father (who was raised by a very traditional Sand Hill mother) and other family members, then Pontiton has a problem. ”

    like to hear yourself talk i guess..

    Holloway was born in 1963, a year after his mother, Dolores Havel, wed his father, Carroll Holloway. The family moved from Philadelphia to California when Holloway was 5 or 6 years old and his parents divorced when he was 7.

    In junior high, Holloway began going to “powwows and did standard Indian stuff” with his father..

    http://www.jstandard.com/conte

    I don’t consider this a close relationship with your father to be raised Native. He was raised Jewish! Can’t twist the facts from his own mouth.

    Reply
  8. Nick Lento

    Pontiton said…..

    You are the one making claims on a public forum with no supporting evidence! Anyone can claim anything. Proof is what matters, not BS!

    You’ve just described yourself.

    For all we know you’re just a halfway intelligent PR flack who speaks fluent English……time will tell who is telling the truth and who is simply seeking to defensively cover up.      

    Your tactics here have all the earmarks of a troll.   No depth, not real intelligence.  Just negative hard core accusations and negations repeated ad infinitum.    

    Carol and Liz have posted hundreds of facts and documents here over the years.   Carol has posted many links here in the last few days.  You haven’t addresses any of them.

    You sit there anonymously and unaccountably behind your keyboard and just say no to everything……much like the “birthers” who refuse to believe that Obama was born in the USA.   It’s a lot easier to destroy than to construct….what you do is shamelessly cheap.

    If the existence of The Sand Hills wasn’t such a threat to you, you wouldn’t care enough to bother to try to trash people.

    Finally, if you believe in God…and ultimate Justice:  then you know that all of this will eventually be cleared up in a forum in which no bs from anyone will matter.

    Indians have been screwed over from day one…..it wouldn’t be such a shock if your “side” won and it happened one more time.   It would be quite sad that the divide and conquer strategy would have worked yet again.

    Likely, virtually no one here aside from the actual parties has had the time and the attention span to actually read all that has been posted here and to analyze it with close scrutiny.    So your simplistic hatchet job of spreading shit all over the truth to try to stink it up just may “succeed” on a very base level.

    I’m prepared to meet my Maker and know that I sincerely believe that Chief Ron Holloway and the rest of the good people associated with him have spoken truth and manifested great courage in the face of corruption.

    For the sake of your soul Ms or Mr “Pontiton” I hope you can say the same.

    Reply
  9. Cherokee Ike

    That person in the photo is not Claire Garland.  How do I know?

    l am Claire Garland, whose father and grandmother were born on Sand Hill and whose great grandfather owned nine acres on Sand Hill.

    Reply
  10. liz (Post author)

    Claire, Claire, Claire!  We are both getting old and senior moments do occur- You have forgotten how at the Indian Commission meeting where Principal Chief Holloway made his presentation – you became irrate and went up to him ranting that he had no right to show YOUR picture in public as he didn’t have your permission to do so and he had to stop!!!  That was the same meeting where you kept speaking about the wrong Beeler and the Commissioners where looking at the floor hoping you would stop.  You remember, don’t you?  Remember how we had the video up of the commission meeting?  We will just chuck it up to a senior moment and call it a day!

    Reply

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